A Is it correct to state that all measurements count photons?

[Chiara]

A text I read some weeks ago claimed that all measurements count photons. Indeed, even a thermometer requires light to be read off, and also a balance.

Is there a type of measurement or a measurement device that does not count photons?

 

[Algr]

Measurements of weight or sound come to mind.

 

[Dale]

A text I read some weeks ago claimed that all measurements count photons. Indeed, even a thermometer requires light to be read off, and also a balance.

Is there a type of measurement or a measurement device that does not count photons?

There is a very big difference between using photons and counting photons.

 

[PeterDonis]

A text I read

What text? Please give a specific reference.

 

[Chiara]

There is a very big difference between using photons and counting photons.

Indeed. But is there a really precise measurement device that does not count photons?

 

[PeterDonis]

is there a really precise measurement device that does not count photons?

Almost all measuring devices do not count photons.

For example, you mention reading a thermometer, which requires light to see its reading. But the process of you seeing the light that tells you what the thermometer reads does not involve counting photons.

In short, whatever source you read seems highly questionable. But we can't say anything more about that unless and until you tell us specifically what that source is.

 

[Dale]

Indeed. But is there a really precise measurement device that does not count photons?

Most do not. Even measurements based on quantum phenomena, such as an atomic clock.

I agree that it would be good to know the source of this claim

 

[Chiara]

Measuring weight uses a scale. Even reading a hand on a watch uses photons to determine if the hand went over a line.on the scale. I would say that all devices with hands thus count the difference between 0 and 1 or more photons.

Measuring sound uses a microphone; it also uses electromagnetic interactions between the air molecules and the sensor. Every microphone uses electromagnetism. The human ear detects with the drum. The drum is moved by the air molecules. Thus, the drum is moved by electromagnetic interaction between the air molecules and the drum molecules.

Atomic clocks require photons to work. (Even if they are only IR or RF photons.) They must count photons to distinguish signal from noise.

So far, all examples, it seems, require photon counting - directly or indirectly.

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A different note. I asked for a type of measurement or a measurement device that does not count photons. Thank you to those who attempted an answer. They are true seekers and scientists, even if they are not yet successful. Let's wait for more attempts.

Several men asked for the origin of the claim and questioned its author. Others applauded. But in science, facts and reality decide, not authorities or originators of claims. People play no role in whether a claim is correct or not.

 

[nasu]

Și, you don't have a source? Just made up this claim?

 

[DaveC426913]

Using a tuning fork to measure whether a piano is in tune counts zero photons.

 

[PeroK]

Is there a type of measurement or a measurement device that does not count photons?

Reading a sign in braille. Tasting whisky. Tuning a piano. Feeling how sensitive a sore tooth is.

 

[DaveC426913]

I asked for a type of measurement or a measurement device that does not count photons. Thank you to those who attempted an answer. They are true seekers and scientists, even if they are not yet successful. Let's wait for more attempts.

You have been given several "attempts", by seekers and scientists alike, that have been "successful".

 

[PeroK]

You have been given several "attempts", by seekers and scientists alike, that have been "successful".

Figuring out if someone is a troll!

 

[Chiara]

You need your ear to compare the tuning fork and the piano - or some other sense. That uses electromagnetism.
Reading signs in Braille requires electromagnetic interactions with your skin.
Tasting whisky requires electromagnetic interactions with the receptors on your tongue.
All feelings, also with teeth, require electromagnetism.

And all electromagnetic interactions directly or indirectly, count photons.

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No, it is not my claim. But I am collecting potential counter-arguments, because the claim is unusual and I had never heard it. And I did not find any counter-argument myself. It is just a simple and fun physics question.

 

[DaveC426913]

You need your ear to compare the tuning fork and the piano. That uses electromagnetism.

How? Because your brain is emitting EMR?

Reading signs in Braille requires electromagnetic interactions with your skin.
Tasting whisky requires electromagnetic interactions with the receptors on your tongue.
All feelings, also with teeth, require electromagnetism.

The fact that physical reality of any kind (whether measuring something or sitting there like a lump) - involves EMR - has nothing to do with counting photons.

Any physical substance above absolute zero emits photons (and all physical subsances are above absolute zero).

 

[PeroK]

You need your ear to compare the tuning fork and the piano - or some other sense. That uses electromagnetism.
Reading signs in Braille requires electromagnetic interactions with your skin.
Tasting whisky requires electromagnetic interactions with the receptors on your tongue.
All feelings, also with teeth, require electromagnetism.

And all electromagnetic interactions directly or indirectly, count photons.

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No, it is not my claim. But I am collecting potential counter-arguments, because the claim is unusual and I had never heard it. And I did not find any counter-argument myself. It is just a simple and fun physics question.

In the world of the blind, the one-eyed man is the photon counter!

 

[PeroK]

I know a good game.

I spy with my little eye something beginning with "p".

 

[FactChecker]

Electromagnetism is a fundamental force that is hard to avoid and has few alternatives. That does not mean that the electrons are counted every time that force is involved. There are the weak and strong force at the subatomic level. Gravity is a force relevant to a lot of measurements.
If a balance says that 2 lbs is heavier than 1 lb, does that "count" electrons?

 

[Paul Colby]

May stretch the question a bit too far but, some quantity of energy must be detected to make a measurement, even reading a thermometer. When EM is involved, this measurement energy requires some number of photons be involved, even if very low energy ones. In this sense, one is counting.

 

[DaveC426913]

May stretch the question a bit too far but, some quantity of energy must be detected to make a measurement, even reading a thermometer. When EM is involved, this measurement energy requires some number of photons be involved, even if very low energy ones. In this sense, one is counting.

Again, what about hearing a tuning fork?