Graduating a year early anxieties + grad school

[SootySnow]

I'm a second year undergraduate studying physics in America with aspirations to get a PhD. My current plan is to graduate in spring of 2027, so I would have to apply to grad schools during the fall/winter of this year. Recently, I've been getting very anxious about applications coming up. My anxiety comes from the belief I have that I'm at a disadvantage applying to graduate school due to having a year less of experience compared to other applicants.

I can only predict what I can put on my application by the end of the year, but I this is what I assume it will be:
GPA: 3.9 - 3.97
Research: I've already done 2 semesters and a REU in a nuclear computational lab, and will do 2 semesters and a prestigious summer student program in 2026 for CMS.
Letters: I have 2 very strong letters and am hoping to get one more from my advisor over the summer.
Misc: Maybe a publication coming up from my group before 2027??? (who knows)

Another anxiety I have with graduating early is having less time to explore what I like about physics. I like the research I do now, but I want to see what other disciplines have to offer too. I also feel another year would give me the time to take more upper level classes (since 3 years has everything packed in) and join other groups I'm interested in. I feel this reason is more compelling than the last as I fear I will be trapped in HEP if I continue down my current path (not to say I don't think it's really interesting!).

My college fund almost perfectly covers 3 years of tuition, so I'd have to take some form of loan if I did another. This is the reason why I initially planned on 3 years. I don't think there is an objective answer to extending college another year (or even a semester) for myself, and I realize I do have some time to make a decision. Ultimately, my two questions are:

- How will 3 years of undergraduate affect the competitiveness of an application? (In general)
- Is it worth an extra year of undergraduate to explore physics before becoming a grad student? (I ask this to say, how locked in are you to a specific field in grad school?)

If you feel like you can give me further advice, but want more specifics about my situation, please feel free to DM me.
Thanks for reading!

 

[jedishrfu]

You know, I think you know the answer we’d give. Enjoy your four years, experience other courses, talk with your professors about research projects. Spend 5 years if you need to. This time will likely never come again.

The third undergrad year is when the courses up their game and assume you understand what you learned before. These courses will be more serious and move faster because there’s a lot to cover.

As an example, in introductory physics and modern physics you touch upon a variety of topics but are given fairly straightforward problems to solve. In classical mechanics, the perspective changes to Lagrangian and Hamiltonian mechanics. These systems when applied to your introductory force problems appear to solve them effortlessly. You are instead introduced to problems that are much more difficult and require deeper thinking.

With respect to grad school, the reviewers aren't impressed by early undergraduates. They want ones well versed in undergrad physics and math and even some research. In a sense, the graduate school is hiring potential student interns to take on teaching and research of their professors while the profs teach on what it means to be a PhD.

If you are truly exceptional and have great recommendation records from your profs especially if one or more have gone to that school for graduate studies then you might get accepted. But, being an early grad just makes it a lot tougher.

—-

In my undergrad physics years, I met a young prodigy from NYC. He skipped his senior year of highschool so no diploma. He did three years of undergrad and skipped to graduate school again no BS Physics and finally he came out with a PhD degree in physics from MIT. He had to get that final diploma otherwise he had nothing to show for his hard work.

Later, he became a popular science and math journalist and author, writing a book on Erdos, the nomadic mathematician. His highschool I believe was Brooklyn Technical, a well respected NYC school for gifted students. I recall that he was self taught on Classical Mechanics from Goldstein, the gold standard of CM books.

—-

The first thing you should do is to take the GRE as its usually required for graduate schools although some schools are changing that tradition.

 

[CrysPhys]

Another anxiety I have with graduating early is having less time to explore what I like about physics. I like the research I do now, but I want to see what other disciplines have to offer too. I also feel another year would give me the time to take more upper level classes (since 3 years has everything packed in) and join other groups I'm interested in. I feel this reason is more compelling than the last as I fear I will be trapped in HEP if I continue down my current path (not to say I don't think it's really interesting!).
...
- Is it worth an extra year of undergraduate to explore physics before becoming a grad student? (I ask this to say, how locked in are you to a specific field in grad school?)

<<Emphasis added>>

* The passages I've highlighted are the most telling as to why you shouldn't rush through your undergrad in 3 yrs. I'm in favor of the US undergrad program in which you can take a year (or even two, if you don't go too far afield) to explore, find yourself, and decide on what to major in. But a PhD Physics program is not a place in which to find yourself. You will be sacrificing much of your personal life for ~6+ yrs in pursuit of a PhD Physics. Before you take the plunge, you should have sufficient drive to see you through that sacrifice: you should at least identify the general area of research that ignites your inner fire (theoretical high energy particle physics, experimental condensed matter physics, ...). If you have, e.g., two top picks, that's OK, as long as either one will make you happy. But if you're not sure and just want to pursue "physics research", your story will probably not have a happy ending.

* Knowing which area of research you wish to pursue is also essential for developing a candidate list of grad schools to apply to. Specific schools are strong in specific fields. In particular, if you wish to pursue experimental research, availability of specialized facilities is important; e.g., if you wish to pursue experimental condensed matter physics, a school with an interdisciplinary Materials Research Lab (MRL) is advantageous. Knowing which area of research you wish to pursue will also help you write a more cogent application. In your junior and senior years, you will have the opportunity to take specialized courses (such as solid-state physics, nuclear physics, and plasma physics) and pursue more research opportunities.

* Core physics courses are taught iteratively from beginning undergrad to advanced undergrad to grad. Your goal should not be to satisfy minimum undergrad requirements to be admitted to a PhD Physics program. Your goal should be to complete a strong enough undergrad program to succeed and flourish in a PhD Physics program.

 

[Choppy]

Some things to consider:

• Are you actually taking a 4 year degree? Beware that some schools offer 3 year undergraduate degrees that don't actually qualify you for graduate school. Typically these are combined with, education degrees for example, for those interested in teaching.
• If you are doing a full honours undergraduate BSc, how is it that you're completing a degree that typically takes 4 years in 3 years? Are you taking the same number of total credit-hours as typical students, but overloading (i.e. taking 6-7 courses per semester)? Did you get a lot of advance credit essentially allowing you to dive in at year 2? Or have you cut some corners?
• Generally speaking, I think it's a good idea to spend time as an undergrad exploring your options. You also want to develop some marketable skills, as even for those who finish the PhD, the odds of becoming a professor are quite small. There's an element of living life as well. But certainly I can understand wanting to avoid debt if possible too.
• There can be flexibility to change focus once you're in graduate school, but it's generally not as easy as just filling out the paperwork to transfer into a different field. You need to find a supervisor who's wiling to take you on, AFTER they have already gone through admissions to get the students into their group that they are interested in. Sometimes you have to re-apply. But in most cases your graduate coursework will transfer.

 

[Muu9]

I recall that he was self taught on Classical Mechanics from Goldstein, the gold standard of CM books.

When did he self-teach CM, during undergrad?

 

[jedishrfu]

No, in highschool. This was in the late 1960s. His highschool was in NYC and was very progressive.

Goldstein was the best book to learn classical mechanics from. If you knew Calculus you could work through it.

 

[SootySnow]

<<Emphasis added>>

* The passages I've highlighted are the most telling as to why you shouldn't rush through your undergrad in 3 yrs. I'm in favor of the US undergrad program in which you can take a year (or even two, if you don't go too far afield) to explore, find yourself, and decide on what to major in. But a PhD Physics program is not a place in which to find yourself. You will be sacrificing much of your personal life for ~6+ yrs in pursuit of a PhD Physics. Before you take the plunge, you should have sufficient drive to see you through that sacrifice: you should at least identify the general area of research that ignites your inner fire (theoretical high energy particle physics, experimental condensed matter physics, ...). If you have, e.g., two top picks, that's OK, as long as either one will make you happy. But if you're not sure and just want to pursue "physics research", your story will probably not have a happy ending.

* Knowing which area of research you wish to pursue is also essential for developing a candidate list of grad schools to apply to. Specific schools are strong in specific fields. In particular, if you wish to pursue experimental research, availability of specialized facilities is important; e.g., if you wish to pursue experimental condensed matter physics, a school with an interdisciplinary Materials Research Lab (MRL) is advantageous. Knowing which area of research you wish to pursue will also help you write a more cogent application. In your junior and senior years, you will have the opportunity to take specialized courses (such as solid-state physics, nuclear physics, and plasma physics) and pursue more research opportunities.

* Core physics courses are taught iteratively from beginning undergrad to advanced undergrad to grad. Your goal should not be to satisfy minimum undergrad requirements to be admitted to a PhD Physics program. Your goal should be to complete a strong enough undergrad program to succeed and flourish in a PhD Physics program.

Well said. For a long time, I've had this perception of success that's defined in magnitude rather than direction. Going into college all I knew is that I wanted to be successful in physics, without dedicating effort into finding what it is I have a specific passion for. As much as I thought it'd be irresponsible to go into debt when I could avoid it, I've begun to think an extra year would impact my future significantly, in practical ways (more focused grad school apps) and in giving me more time to direct my passion. Thank you for the thoughtful response.

 

[SootySnow]

Some things to consider:

• Are you actually taking a 4 year degree? Beware that some schools offer 3 year undergraduate degrees that don't actually qualify you for graduate school. Typically these are combined with, education degrees for example, for those interested in teaching.
• If you are doing a full honours undergraduate BSc, how is it that you're completing a degree that typically takes 4 years in 3 years? Are you taking the same number of total credit-hours as typical students, but overloading (i.e. taking 6-7 courses per semester)? Did you get a lot of advance credit essentially allowing you to dive in at year 2? Or have you cut some corners?
• Generally speaking, I think it's a good idea to spend time as an undergrad exploring your options. You also want to develop some marketable skills, as even for those who finish the PhD, the odds of becoming a professor are quite small. There's an element of living life as well. But certainly I can understand wanting to avoid debt if possible too.
• There can be flexibility to change focus once you're in graduate school, but it's generally not as easy as just filling out the paperwork to transfer into a different field. You need to find a supervisor who's wiling to take you on, AFTER they have already gone through admissions to get the students into their group that they are interested in. Sometimes you have to re-apply. But in most cases your graduate coursework will transfer.

Thanks for the response. My degree program is set at 4 years, I came in with both AP Physics C credits, a lot of college math, and a bunch of other AP credits to cover gen eds, allowing me to start in 2nd year phys courses. It is also a physics honors degree so I do have to take a few extra courses in QM, E&M, and CM. My credit hours are fairly regular, ~15-16 per semester. I think I will probably try to explore my options further, currently leaning towards 4 years right now. Ideally, the extra year would allow me to apply to some more scholarships (would be amazing to get a national one) so I wouldn't have to pay the full burden.

 

[Muu9]

Thanks for the response. My degree program is set at 4 years, I came in with both AP Physics C credits, a lot of college math, and a bunch of other AP credits to cover gen eds, allowing me to start in 2nd year phys courses. It is also a physics honors degree so I do have to take a few extra courses in QM, E&M, and CM. My credit hours are fairly regular, ~15-16 per semester. I think I will probably try to explore my options further, currently leaning towards 4 years right now. Ideally, the extra year would allow me to apply to some more scholarships (would be amazing to get a national one) so I wouldn't have to pay the full burden.

Aren't most PhD programs funded? What I think a scholarship does for PhD students is get you out of needing to rely on paid TA positions and make you an attractive admit since you bring your own funding.

Also, do you have any faculty mentors you can talk to, particularly those who have worked with undergraduates recently who can therefore comment on how you measure up compared to other recent graduates?

Lastly, is there any reason you can't apply this cycle and take an extra year if you don't like your results? That seems like it wouldn't have a downside relative to just taking the extra year.

 

[CrysPhys]

Ideally, the extra year would allow me to apply to some more scholarships (would be amazing to get a national one) so I wouldn't have to pay the full burden.

Aren't most PhD programs funded? What I think a scholarship does for PhD students is get you out of needing to rely on paid TA positions and make you an attractive admit since you bring your own funding.

OP: Please clarify. When I read your post concerning scholarships, I thought you were talking about scholarships for your 4th yr undergrad.

Lastly, is there any reason you can't apply this cycle and take an extra year if you don't like your results? That seems like it wouldn't have a downside relative to just taking the extra year.

But there are downsides. The first is a major psychological hit if the OP has a weak application and doesn't get accepted into any of the grad schools on their wish list. And even if the OP is admitted, there are still the issues I raised earlier concerning the strength of the OP's preparation to succeed.

The second needs clarification from forum members who have served on grad admissions committees: If a student applies one year and is rejected, does that have an influence on their chances should they apply again the following year, even if they have a substantially stronger application the second time around? Or does the first bad impression carry forward?

 

[CrysPhys]

Well said. For a long time, I've had this perception of success that's defined in magnitude rather than direction. Going into college all I knew is that I wanted to be successful in physics, without dedicating effort into finding what it is I have a specific passion for. As much as I thought it'd be irresponsible to go into debt when I could avoid it, I've begun to think an extra year would impact my future significantly, in practical ways (more focused grad school apps) and in giving me more time to direct my passion. Thank you for the thoughtful response.

You're very welcome. Yes, the sequence should be: "My goal is X. In order to achieve X, I need to obtain a PhD Physics." Rather than: "My goal is to obtain a PhD Physics. Then I'll decide what to do." But note, as I've posted before, a PhD Physics (particularly the thesis research) can be an end in itself, rather than a means to an end. That's OK, as long as you're aware of that going in.

 

[Choppy]

The second needs clarification from forum members who have served on grad admissions committees: If a student applies one year and is rejected, does that have an influence on their chances should they apply again the following year, even if they have a substantially stronger application the second time around? Or does the first bad impression carry forward?

For what it's worth in my experience, admission decisions are largely independent from one year to the next. Consider:
- large pools of applicants make individual applications difficult to remember (although borderline cases may stand out)
- admission committee membership can change from year to year
- applicants tend to be ranked relative to the other applicants in the pool that year
- the number of spots available can change year-to-year

 

[SootySnow]

Aren't most PhD programs funded? What I think a scholarship does for PhD students is get you out of needing to rely on paid TA positions and make you an attractive admit since you bring your own funding.

Also, do you have any faculty mentors you can talk to, particularly those who have worked with undergraduates recently who can therefore comment on how you measure up compared to other recent graduates?

Lastly, is there any reason you can't apply this cycle and take an extra year if you don't like your results? That seems like it wouldn't have a downside relative to just taking the extra year.

Thanks for responding, I do have a professor at my university I work very closely with that I should talk more to about this type of stuff. I would also like to clarify I meant scholarships for undergraduate.

I have also considered applying anyways as you mentioned, and then taking the extra year if I don't like my results. Although I'm sure this isn't logically sound, I am hesitant in doing this. I am relatively confident on getting accepted to grad school at my current university (although nothing is for certain). I have worked with a professor who made clear to me he would take me on as a graduate student if I applied. In the scenario where my best option is my home university, I think I may feel pressured to start my PhD instead of taking an extra year. I feel this way because I would be paying for an education when I could be starting a PhD (without having to pay) at the same institution. I recognize this understanding is flawed, but it is one somewhat difficult to overcome. If anyone has any perspectives on this, I'd like to hear!

I should add I do think my school's program is great, but I would personally find it very hard to imagine myself living 6+ more years where my university is located.

 

[jedishrfu]

When you start grad school, there will be pressure, especially if you're doing TA or RA-type work.

I had an experience at an upstate university. I took graduate-level physics classes there, paid for by my company via tuition reimbursement, after I received my grades. You needed to get a B or higher to get your tuition reimbursed. There was pressure to take the qualifying exam, even though I had only taken two courses. It was required for PhD candidates to take within 2 years of their studies.

I was five years out of undergrad, relearning forgotten basics under pressure from coursework. However, we were expected to know and recite some math functions, namely the Bessel, Legendre, and Laguerre functions for spherical coordinates. There was no way I could do that at the time.

During my second year's winter break, my wife and I traveled abroad. When we returned, the university told me it was too late to pay for the semester, despite my explanation that I used my Fall tuition benefit for Spring. They insisted, so I chose to leave and went to a nearby university to get an MS in CompSci.

The end.