PF Style 2026

[PeterDonis]

This is why I left the old style.

Will that be permanent, or will it go away at some point?

 

[Dale]

Is anyone else unusually bothered by the mix of serif, sans serif, and monospaced fonts?

Very much just an opinion thing. Safe to ignore me.

I am not too bothered by it, but I do prefer to use monospaced fonts only for code or command line instructions.

 

[PeterDonis]

to me the new style looks drab. The old one has some color. The new one is just not as pleasant for me to look at.

Btw, to put this observation of mine in context, I have this condition:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congenital_red–green_color_blindness

For example, in the Ishihara plate shown at the top right of that Wikipedia page, I can sort of see a faint "21". I see nothing like a "74" anywhere. (When I was a kid, I took the Ishihara test several times, with my father watching. On the plates where I was obviously not seeing what a person with normal color vision would see, I could feel my father trying to telepathically tell me what the number was.)

So the colors of the new style don't look to me the way they look to a person with normal color vision. From what I can gather, about 5% of males have my particular version of red-green colorblindness ("anomalous trichromacy, deuteranomaly"), and about 9% have some form of it. (As the Wikipedia article notes, the condition is much rarer among females because the genes involved are on the X chromosome.) A big reason why I like the old style as compared with the new is that it uses more blue colors, which I can see easily.

 

[CrysPhys]

A big reason why I like the old style as compared with the new is that it uses more blue colors, which I can see easily.

Interesting comment. I also prefer the greater use of blue colors in the old style. But in my case, I think it's more psychological. In light mode, I find the old color scheme more soothing (or at least neutral) and the new color scheme more garish and harsh. I've since switched to dark mode for the new style.

This brings back bad memories of when I was a grad student at UIUC eons ago. The terminals in the computer lab were outfitted with the Plato Plasma Display. This was a flat-panel monochrome display with extremely garish and harsh orange display elements against a blackish background. Good thing my thesis was in experimental solid-state physics, and I didn't have to spend too much time in front of those #?$! terminals.

 

[Greg Bernhardt]

Will that be permanent, or will it go away at some point?

TBD, but either way it will be unsupported

I am not too bothered by it, but I do prefer to use monospaced fonts only for code or command line instructions.

This is interesting because the monospace font is used quite sparingly only for meta data. 90% of the on page text is Inter, 5% Jetbrains Mono and 5% Spectral.

So the colors of the new style don't look to me the way they look to a person with normal color vision.

Very interesting. I see the 74 clearly.

In light mode, I find the old color scheme more soothing (or at least neutral) and the new color scheme more garish and harsh. I've since switched to dark mode for the new style.

Interesting again. Personally green and beige for me feel organic and soothing. Grey and blue is more unnatural and techie. Dark mode for sure is more dynamic. I'm very interested to hear more about dark mode which has more neon elements, especially if people think it's more soothing than light mode.

 

[Dale]

I vastly prefer dark mode in general. Sites that don’t render a dark mode feel outdated to me and are unpleasant to use.

The PF dark mode is good, IMO. The colors are different enough to be distinctive from other dark mode sites. I know when I am on PF

 

[Greg Bernhardt]

I have removed the monospace font

 

[PeterDonis]

Very interesting. I see the 74 clearly.

So did my dad when he was watching me take the test as a kid and trying to telepathically tell me what the number was.

Personally green and beige for me feel organic and soothing.

But because of the way my color vision works, I'm not seeing green and beige. I'm seeing a sort of dirty pinkish brown.

 

[PeterDonis]

TBD, but either way it will be unsupported

What does "unsupported" mean if the option to choose that style is still there in the user's preferences?

 

[Greg Bernhardt]

What does "unsupported" mean if the option to choose that style is still there in the user's preferences?

I'll not maintain it

 

[PeterDonis]

I'll not maintain it

That still doesn't tell me much, since I don't know what "maintain" involves. What "maintenance" were you doing on the old style before you started work on the new one?

 

[Greg Bernhardt]

That still doesn't tell me much, since I don't know what "maintain" involves. What "maintenance" were you doing on the old style before you started work on the new one?

Let's just leave at I'll not fix anything broken or develop anything new. Essentially it's off my mind and PF future.

 

[PeterDonis]

Let's just leave at I'll not fix anything broken or develop anything new. Essentially it's off my mind and PF future.

Ok. I would be fine with it remaining as an option under those conditions.

 

[Greg Bernhardt]

Ok. I would be fine with it remaining as an option under those conditions.

How do you see these link variations?

 

[PeterDonis]

How do you see these link variations?

The three light mode ones all look the same to me. So do the three dark mode ones.

If you're asking if the links look different to me color-wise, they look lighter to me than the normal text next to them in light mode, and darker than the normal text next to them in dark mode. But I don't see any difference between the three panes in each mode.

 

[PeterDonis]

How do you see these link variations?

Going by the color names, I would not expect to see any real difference, since Teal is just a mixture of blue and green and I'm not really going to see the green.

 

[Greg Bernhardt]

Going by the color names, I would not expect to see any real difference, since Teal is just a mixture of blue and green and I'm not really going to see the green.

So I am confused on what moving from green/teal back to blue would achieve.

 

[PeterDonis]

So I am confused on what moving from green/teal back to blue would achieve.

For me it would make no difference, but I would describe the move as being in the opposite direction, since the blue, as I understand it, is what is in the old style.

As far as the new style is concerned, the main thing that makes it look drab to me is the background color, which, as I said, looks like a dirty pinkish brown to me, not the colors of the text or the links.

To be clear, I'm not asking to have particular elements of the new style be moved back in the direction of where the old style was. I'm just asking to have the old style remain as an option I can choose in my preferences, with the understanding that it will get no updates.

 

[symbolipoint]

I'm just asking to have the old style remain as an option I can choose in my preferences,

THAT! THAT THAT!!!

Too do I like the old style. Visually by coloration, I can see the text and background. Visual pieces or parts are not blocking the way either. Many of us do not want to reach the jazz. We want to reach the forum.

 

[BillTre]

Although I don't have a really good feel about the use of specific fonts from what I've read it is considered good to limit the number of fonts used in a document to two. One serif and one sans serif is fine. I have often read that serif fonts are considered better for the body of printed material and sans-serif is better for on line. I don't get these feelings about that, but I am not the most sensitive person.
Personally, I don't think I am very esthetically sensitive to what fonts are good for their particular uses. I use advice from others whom I think are better at making those discriminations than me. WRT to this, my big issues are with readability, size, clarity of text and contrast with the background. These are not issues for me personally with the new PF layout.
However, I am sensitive to color vision issues since several people in my family have issues with this.
Many design programs ways to chose colors that can mitigate at least some problems for people with color vision problems. The most common form is difficulty in discriminating red vs. green, but others exist. There are three color sensors in the eye: red, green, blue and each or all can get screwed up resulting in different color discrimination problems.

The color schemes of many documents or websites can be selected to as a set of colors that are considered to work together well (good contrast, doesn't tire the eyes, etc.). There are frequently options for these sets of colors that work well with the most common color vision problems. Its kind of like an ADA thing. Here is a link to an article on this. I am aware of this because I had to deal with several accessibility issues (but not color vision) in some jobs.

WRT to garish vs. non-garish colors and their uses. I like Edward Tufte's advise on this. He has several great books on these issues. I would start with number 1.

1. Tufte, Edward R (2001) [1983], The Visual Display of Quantitative Information (2nd ed.), Cheshire, CT: Graphics Press, ISBN 0-9613921-4-2.
2. Tufte, Edward R (2001b) [1990], Envisioning Information, Cheshire, CT: Graphics Press, ISBN 0-9613921-1-8.
3. Tufte, Edward R (1997), Visual Explanations: Images and Quantities, Evidence and Narrative, Cheshire, CT: Graphics Press, ISBN 0-9613921-2-6.
4. Tufte, Edward R (2006), Beautiful Evidence, Cheshire, CT: Graphics Press, Bibcode:2006beev.book.....T, ISBN 0-9613921-7-7.

As I remember, he really likes more calm (pastel-ish?) colors for certain uses like maps and backgrounds. I believe garish colors are for attracting attention and creating more contrast.

 

[symbolipoint]

On Android, mobile, new 2026 style, allowing dark mode. When opening three dot menu, see link when scroll to bottom "sign in", but obviously already am. No link to sign out.

edit: Now returned to desktop computer Windows 10, old 2025 style. I am strongly guessing just closing the browser will log-me-out. I was using the Firefox mobile browser a while ago when I was on mobile Android device.

 

[sbrothy]

THAT! THAT THAT!!!

Too do I like the old style. Visually by coloration, I can see the text and background. Visual pieces or parts are not blocking the way either. Many of us do not want to reach the jazz. We want to reach the forum.

But if you can select the old layout and enough people do it (I assume you can keep track of it on you site), then it's not really a new brand is it? What is it with people and change?

I really like the new front page. I'm not a sycophant, I'm not a fan of the new font (and I have other criticisms), but why can't we let PF reinvent itself till it it does it the next time? Maybe just ask for more reinventions? (Yeah, I know @Greg Bernhardt , it'll be more work. Still....

 

[CrysPhys]

edit: Now returned to desktop computer Windows 10, old 2025 style. I am strongly guessing just closing the browser will log-me-out. I was using the Firefox mobile browser a while ago when I was on mobile Android device.

I don't have much experience with mobile browsers. But on a Windows PC, closing the browser will log you out of PF only if you set your browser to automatically clear history, cache, associated data, ... when you close the browser. You can also manually clear history, ... before you close the browser. Otherwise, the next time you access PF, you will automatically be logged in.

 

[CrysPhys]

But if you can select the old layout and enough people do it (I assume you can keep track of it on you site), then it's not really a new brand is it? What is it with people and change?

I really like the new front page. I'm not a sycophant, I'm not a fan of the new font (and I have other criticisms), but why can't we let PF reinvent itself till it it does it the next time? Maybe just ask for more reinventions? (Yeah, I know @Greg Bernhardt , it'll be more work. Still....

Well, I'm a strong proponent of the maxim, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it!" But, as I replied earlier in this thread, I'm not opposed to stylistic changes as long as it follows the "First do no harm!" principle. At least for some of us, the new style did do harm. To Greg's credit, he has been dynamically responding to members' carps.

In general, I'm not fond of change merely for the sake of change. What's "dated" or "outmoded" to some may well be "classic" to others. Remember the fierce customer pushback Coke faced when they introduced the "New Coke"? They responded by re-introducing the old Coke as "Coke Classic".

I'm more a proponent of change driven by fixing problems identified by customers in the old product or service and adding new useful features not offerred in the old product or service.

As I mentioned previously, the situation is different for commercial products or services. Some companies often come up with new stuff just to sell new stuff to increase sales, regardless of whether the new stuff is better than, worse than, or substantially the same as, the old stuff.

 

[PeterDonis]

What is it with people and change?

Yes, what is it with people feeling like they have to change something that works just fine as it is?

I really like the new front page.

I really like the old styling and color scheme. I actually don't care that much about the layout of the front page because I spend almost no time there. The layout of the places where I spend the vast majority of my time hasn't changed very much. But I don't like the new styling and color scheme.

why can't we let PF reinvent itself till it it does it the next time?

Why does PF have to "reinvent itself"? And is that even what's happening? The fundamental purpose of the site isn't changing, is it?

 

[PeterDonis]

if you can select the old layout

Is the layout that strongly tied to the styling and color scheme? @Greg Bernhardt?

 

[Greg Bernhardt]

Is the layout that strongly tied to the styling and color scheme? @Greg Bernhardt?

Not sure the question, but the two styles are distinct template sets.

 

[symbolipoint]

But if you can select the old layout and enough people do it (I assume you can keep track of it on you site), then it's not really a new brand is it? What is it with people and change?

I really like the new front page. I'm not a sycophant, I'm not a fan of the new font (and I have other criticisms), but why can't we let PF reinvent itself till it it does it the next time?

I strongly prefer comfortably able to view and to not need to scroll so much to find where the forum parts are. That is why I like the previous style.

 

[symbolipoint]

I'm more a proponent of change driven by fixing problems identified by customers in the old product or service and adding new useful features not offerred in the old product or service.

THAT, the best way to think about developing things further.

 

[Jonathan Scott]

I was satisfied with the old style, which seemed stronger. The new style seems visually like an old sepia photo in comparison. I don't particularly like it but accept that I might get used to it. However, it also gives an impression of having significantly more blank space around stuff (although I don't know if that is actually true), which to me is bad because it means having less information per screenful, needing more scrolling and only having a smaller window into complex discussions.

I used to run a simple website myself (for the Havant Orchestras, up to mid-2024) for which I wrote everything directly in HTML, PHP and CSS using Notepad. "Web experts" kept telling me that the "modern" look was minimal with a lot of white space, but feedback from users indicated they liked having lots of stuff visible at the same time, minimizing scrolling and links to other pages. But everyone agreed that the look was less important than the fact that it worked; in my case it provided the right information in a way which was easy to find.