Career guidance for a very lost Physics PhD student?

[dp647]

I feel quite lost with regard to forming any sort of career plan at the moment. Right now, I’m at the start of my 4th year as a Physics PhD student at a good school (one of the Ivies). My work so far has been in theoretical condensed matter physics (cold atom gases in optical cavities).

I think I embarked on the PhD journey because it was the path of least resistance in the sense that it was more of what I did before as a student, rather than a sudden change like the workforce. However, I’ve come to realize and accept that I am just not on par with my peers who aim to go into academe, either in terms of ability or raw stamina. Assuming everything from here onwards goes smoothly, I should have about three more years to go. Naturally, I am strongly encouraged at this stage to form a specific career plan, if not expected to already have one.

The trouble is that I have absolutely no idea where to start. Even as an undergrad, I remember feeling paralyzed whenever I tried to formulate a plan for after graduation other than grad school, and that likely contributed to me pursuing a PhD. On the one hand, lots of people say that someone with a PhD in a STEM field like physics should have no trouble finding a good job, but of course there are numerous assumptions being made of someone pursuing a physics PhD when they say that. I just don’t think those assumptions are true of me. To be blunt, I don’t believe that I currently have any valuable skills I could turn into a job. In fact, in my role as a TA I often admire my students; even as rising juniors, I think they’re in a stronger position than I. In the grand scheme of things, I feel like a glorified sophomore who knows a bit more math than most engineering majors, but that’s about it.

At this point, I’d just like to not die of hunger and homelessness after leaving grad school. Though I suppose in the worst case scenario, I could just find some minimum wage unskilled labor job to sustain myself.
After scouring similar posts here and elsewhere, and chatting with AI, I’ve most frequently encountered the following routes:

1. The hard-reset: getting a Master’s in a more employable field, like electrical engineering. This is, of course, tempting for the student in me. It’s structured and presents a rhythm I find predictable and therefore like, while also developing specific skills I could put on a resume. The downside is that this will likely require loans to finance, though I thankfully have no other loans to worry about thanks to getting a full-ride in undergrad.
2. Patent clerk. As I understand, a STEM background is helpful and no additional schooling is required. I would have to study for and pass the USPTO.
3. I’ve seen “consulting” thrown around a lot, though no one has been able to give me a clear explanation of what exactly consultants do, or what qualifies one to “be consulted” about something (unless they happen to be an expert at that something). I don’t quite understand where to start evaluating my qualifications for such a role.
4. Data science. I definitely don’t have the skills for this at the moment (my coding skills are quite rudimentary, and I haven't taken a statistics course since high school), but I am considering enrolling in the IBM Data Science online course to get a certification. Can’t hurt, I suppose. One concern I have with this stems from hearing about AI eliminating many entry-level jobs in this field.
5. Teaching. I do very much enjoy my TA work, but I’m also very well aware that being a teacher is not the same. What I like is interacting with a person one-on-one and helping them understand how to tackle a problem. Being responsible for managing a course is not that. I also understand that teaching typically requires additional qualifications.

That’s basically it. Any advice or insight, especially from someone who was once in a similar position, would be welcome. One thing I do know for certain is that I will not voluntarily drop out of my program, even with a Master’s and even if the PhD will never be needed for a job. It has been my rule in life to finish anything I undertake without exception. I will request, however, that anyone replying not merely dismiss what I have said as just “imposter syndrome,” or to otherwise think that being in a PhD program must absolutely imply high intelligence or a formidable inventory of skills. I’ve encountered this so much, and I feel so unheard and dismissed every time this happens.

 

[berkeman]

Welcome to PF.

You will get much better replies from others here (we have some amazing Academic Advisors), but I have two questions for you to hopefully guide those responses.

First, what subjects have you found the most interesting and motivating so far? Not necessarily the specialty you have ended up in now, but in general.

Second, what careers have recent graduates from your PhD program ended up in? You should be able to find out that information from your Physics department. Does that information give you any ideas?

 

[jedishrfu]

Have you looked for where condensed matter folks go for jobs? A coworkers son got a PhD in Condensed Matter physics and found work at a major oil company.

Try searching for other types of jobs like in energy, semiconductor research and related fields. Assess your math and computer skills because a lot of work will involve them.

You won't likely find jobs saying we're looking for a condensed matter PhD. But if the job description reminds you of your course work then apply. You're likely to earn more than in academia.

 

[dp647]

Welcome to PF.

You will get much better replies from others here (we have some amazing Academic Advisors), but I have two questions for you to hopefully guide those responses.

First, what subjects have you found the most interesting and motivating so far? Not necessarily the specialty you have ended up in now, but in general.

Second, what careers have recent graduates from your PhD program ended up in? You should be able to find out that information from your Physics department. Does that information give you any ideas?

The first is a tricky one; I’ve always found it hard to put into words what I like and why. If I approach it from the structured view of specific courses I enjoyed in undergrad, then in no particular order these are the following: intermediate classical mechanics, complex analysis, Buddhist theology, Christian theology, thermal physics, ancient philosophy, quantum mechanics, Roman history/archaeology. I sometimes joke that I am a humanities person who stumbled into physics and hasn’t yet been kicked out.

Apart from courses, my research project has made me appreciate the power of computational/numerical methods for solving physical problems. I think being able to translate a physical problem that may be analytically challenging or outright impossible to do by hand into code, and to thereby gain otherwise inaccessible insights into the system under study, is quite cool. But note: though my research work has predominantly been computational (minimizing energy functionals, calculating the eigenstates/values of an operator, mapping out a phase diagram, etc.), my coding skills are rudimentary, as I said in my post. I could not reproduce my work on my own without help from AI. That being said, I do think it would be interesting to learn more. Just last month, I for the first time thought I would just try to implement a Laplacian with twisted boundary conditions and a periodic potential all on my own. I was very happy to see the band structure just pop out of such a simple calculation.

Regarding your second question, our Doctoral Career Outcomes page indicates the following as the most common non-academic employers of our graduates (beware that these are all single digits): Google, Apple, IBM, Intel, and various national labs. As for whether these give me any ideas, I lean towards the negative. This is because these students were hired for skills they have which I do not, so it is hard to say in the moment, “yes, that’s a job I could get.” I wouldn’t even know where to start with closing the gap but, as I said in my post, I’m starting to do something (however little) by enrolling in a Coursera Data Science course.

 

[CrysPhys]

@dp647 . Before I respond in more detail, are you a US citizen?

 

[dp647]

@dp647 . Before I respond in more detail, are you a US citizen?

Yes.

 

[Andy Resnick]

To be blunt, I don’t believe that I currently have any valuable skills I could turn into a job.

I debated about replying; I think this is the critical sentence in your OP.

Do you expect me to believe that after at least 8 years of schooling (post-high school!), you still have *no* skills relevant for *any* job? I don't believe that is true. But, if it is, who is the only person who can change that?

 

[CrysPhys]

Yes.

OK. That provides you with more options. I'll follow up with more detailed responses later, since you've asked a lot of questions concerning pragmatic outcomes after your PhD.

First, some preliminary remarks.

* What you are going through is not unusual. Your first two years of grad school are really hectic: courses, qual exams, and (for most) duties as a teaching assistant. Your third year, you may be taking some advanced courses and dealing with the prelim exam (names vary with the university). Fourth year, you're fully engaged in your thesis, and more isolated.

* It's important to establish or maintain a life outside the physics building: sports, dance, volunteer work .... That way you won't be so isolated.

* As I've mentioned many times here, a Physics PhD program does not have to be a means to an end (unlike a med school or law school program); it can be an end itself. But that means you need to have true passion (an overused term these days) for your thesis project: it has to be satisfying in and of itself; it has to make all those long years worthwhile in and of itself.

 

[dp647]

I debated about replying; I think this is the critical sentence in your OP.

Do you expect me to believe that after at least 8 years of schooling (post-high school!), you still have *no* skills relevant for *any* job? I don't believe that is true. But, if it is, who is the only person who can change that?

In my estimation, yes, that is true to a great extent. The one thing I can see myself potentially being qualified for, in my current state, is as a math/physics tutor. I don't feel like I came away from my education thus far with anything tangible beyond that, even with straight A's.
As you imply, I am the only one able to change that. The task is to identify the what and the how of which skills to target, and at the moment that feels like a multi-peaked Everest that I can only gawk at in a state of stupefied awe. Though as I've written, I'm trying to do something, however meaningless.

 

[jedishrfu]

Please consider too that you may be judging yourself too harshly. Many of your tutoring skills would likely map over to any job in any field.

 

[gleem]

I have no idea what cold atoms in optical cavities is about or what you could do with that background so I put it to AI.

Gemini, what jobs could a researcher in the theoretical aspects of cold atom gases in optical cavities possibly be qualified to do?

This is what it said.

A researcher specializing in the theoretical physics of cold atom gases in optical cavities possesses a highly valuable mix of advanced mathematics, quantum mechanics, computational modeling, and data analysis skills.
Here are the primary career paths and roles you are well-qualified to pursue:

Quantum Technology Industry

• Quantum Research Scientist: Designing protocols for quantum simulation, computing architectures, and error correction.
• Quantum Algorithm Developer: Creating and optimizing algorithms specifically tailored for NISQ (Noisy Intermediate-Scale Quantum) devices or future fault-tolerant systems.
• Quantum Sensing Engineer: Modeling high-precision measurement devices, atomic clocks, and gravimeters.

Computational Science & Engineering

• Simulation / Modeling Engineer: Developing numerical models for complex physical systems in aerospace, semiconductor manufacturing, or materials science.
• HPC (High-Performance Computing) Specialist: Optimizing large-scale scientific code, parallel processing, and cluster utilization for tech firms or national labs.
• Photonics / Optical Engineer: Designing components for optical communications, fiber optics, lasers, and silicon photonics.

Data Science & Artificial Intelligence

• Data Scientist: Applying statistical mechanics frameworks and predictive modeling to massive, unstructured commercial datasets.
• Machine Learning Researcher: Developing novel AI architectures, particularly in geometric deep learning or physics-informed neural networks (PINNs).

Finance & Quantitative Analysis

• Quantitative Analyst (Quant): Utilizing stochastic calculus, partial differential equations, and many-body theory techniques to model financial markets and risk.
• Quantitative Trader: Developing and backtesting automated algorithmic trading strategies.

Academia, Defense, & Government

• Postdoctoral Researcher / Professor: Continuing fundamental research into light-matter interactions and many-body quantum optics.
• Defense & Aerospace Scientist: Working on quantum-encrypted communications (QKD), satellite navigation, and advanced radar systems for government contractors.

To help narrow this down, could you tell me:

• Do you prefer to stay close to fundamental physics, or pivot to purely commercial/tech applications?
• What is your proficiency level with programming languages (e.g., Python, C++, Julia) and numerical libraries?
• Are you looking for roles that require immediate industry transition, or are you exploring long-term academic options?

 

[jedishrfu]

You need to extend the search to industries that use the technology too like has and oil but there are likely others like scientific equipment makers or quantum computer startups.

 

[dp647]

I have no idea what cold atoms in optical cavities is about or what you could do with that background so I put it to AI.

Gemini, what jobs could a researcher in the theoretical aspects of cold atom gases in optical cavities possibly be qualified to do?

I have used AI in getting the at-a-glance overview of what someone in my research area might go on to do. However, the key problem is precisely what I pointed to in my post: what Gemini wrote carries many unstated assumptions about what I know and can do. If I constrain myself to speak no falsehood, then I am compelled to answer that I am not at this time qualified for any of the roles it listed. After all, if we would rationally say that a college sophomore is unqualified, and if I am not much more than a glorified sophomore, then it follows that my immediate prospects are not significantly richer. Hence, my current predicament. Of those roles listed, I arbitrarily chose data science as a somewhat realistic option to work towards out of desperation, and started a pertinent online course yesterday.

 

[WWGD]

I have used AI in getting the at-a-glance overview of what someone in my research area might go on to do. However, the key problem is precisely what I pointed to in my post: what Gemini wrote carries many unstated assumptions about what I know and can do. If I constraint myself to speak no falsehood, then I am compelled to answer that I am not at this time qualified for any of the roles it listed. After all, if we would rationally say that a college sophomore is unqualified, and if I am not much more than a glorified sophomore, then it follows that my immediate prospects are not significantly richer. Hence, my current predicament. Of those roles listed, I arbitrarily chose data science as a somewhat realistic option to work towards out of desperation, and started a pertinent online course yesterday.

You're not expected to hot the ground running everywhere. Training is given in most jobs.

 

[gleem]

However, the key problem is precisely what I pointed to in my post: what Gemini wrote carries many unstated assumptions about what I know and can do. If I constraint myself to speak no falsehood, then I am compelled to answer that I am not at this time qualified for any of the roles it listed.

Are you shortchanging your abilities? It's hard to believe that a theoretical physics grad student in his fourth year does not have some inherent qualification, either in acquired knowledge or personal attributes that he can muster to devise a reasonable plan.

Apart from courses, my research project has made me appreciate the power of computational/numerical methods for solving physical problems. I think being able to translate a physical problem that may be analytically challenging or outright impossible to do by hand into code, and to thereby gain otherwise inaccessible insights into the system under study, is quite cool. But note: though my research work has predominantly been computational (minimizing energy functionals, calculating the eigenstates/values of an operator, mapping out a phase diagram, etc.), my coding skills are rudimentary, as I said in my post. I could not reproduce my work on my own without help from AI. That being said, I do think it would be interesting to learn more. Just last month, I for the first time thought I would just try to implement a Laplacian with twisted boundary conditions and a periodic potential all on my own. I was very happy to see the band structure just pop out of such a simple calculation.

You can't see how to leverage the above to your advantage? If your coding is elementary, then develop it.
I hope you are not letting AI think for you, are you? It should be a tool.

Have you investigated the actual research and requirements for the job opportunities presented by AI? You say that you have three more years, so during that time you could learn skills for projected jobs that you might be interested in. If none of the jobs interest you, that is another problem.

However, I’ve come to realize and accept that I am just not on par with my peers who aim to go into academe, either in terms of ability or raw stamina.

This I find a bit concerning. You got into grad school somehow. Could it be correct that UG was easy, so you did not have to work too hard, only to find out grad school required a whole new level of endeavor? In grad school, being new to research, one is usually given more leeway to finish their project. In industry, you will be expected to deliver results on the company's schedule.

We can only shine some light on possibilities to look at or problems that might need to be addressed to achieve success, but you have to choose a course of action.

This comes up a lot when getting hired, and that is putting yourself in a position that makes you stand out from the competition. Companies are going to ask, why should we hire you, or what can you do for us?

However, I’ve come to realize and accept that I am just not on par with my peers who aim to go into academe,

BTW, more likely than not, some peers, no matter how hard they work, who aspire to an academic position will end up there and will have to plan accordingly.

 

[CrysPhys]

Patent clerk. As I understand, a STEM background is helpful and no additional schooling is required. I would have to study for and pass the USPTO.

* I got my PhD in experimental solid-state physics eons ago. Before I retired, I worked in law firms for almost 10 yrs as a patent agent.

* There is a thread here, "Anyone considering a career as a patent attorney?" (https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/anyone-considering-a-career-as-a-patent-attorney.577550/). It was started in 2012 by Greg's sister, who is a patent attorney. My first post in that thread is dated Oct 22, 2016. The final post (by me) is dated Sep 1, 2022. For some reason, that thread was closed. I have many posts in that thread discussing the transition from PhD physicist to patent agent. I suggest you skim through my posts there.

* The correct term is "patent agent". A STEM background is essential. In order to qualify for a position as a patent agent, you need to pass the USPTO patent bar exam. In order to qualify to sit for the exam, you need to satisfy certain STEM educational requirements. A bachelor's in physics is sufficient, so no additional educational requirements are needed for you.

* Strictly, you can work in patent law without passing the patent bar exam. A law firm can hire you as a "technical specialist". You can essentially do all the work that a patent agent could; but without a patent agent registration number, you can't formally represent a client before the USPTO. I.e., you can't sign official documents to be submitted to the USPTO (someone with a registration number will need to sign the papers as the official representative) and hold conferences alone with examiners (someone with a registration number will need to be present in the conference and act as the official representative).

* Some firms will first hire you as a technical specialist. If you work out, some (not all) will even spring for a patent bar exam prep course. If you pass, you will be promoted to patent agent. If you work out, some (not all) will even spring for evening law classes. If you complete your law degree (and typically pass at least one state bar exam), you will be promoted to patent attorney.

* But if you wish to pursue a career as a patent agent, I recommend that you pass the patent bar exam while you are still in school: (1) You will need a prep course. At one time, there were many available prep courses. For various reasons, there's only one viable one left, Practising Law Institute (PLI). It's pricey (~$3000), but they knock off $1000 if you're still in school. (2) If you pass the patent bar in advance, you will have demonstrated to potential employers that you have given a career in patent law due consideration ... rather than being yet another newbie PhD physicist floundering about for any job.

* Be aware that the degrees most in demand are CS, EE, and ME. A BS in physics would put you at a disadvantage, but a PhD in physics will help get your foot in the door. A degree from an Ivy is an extra bonus, since many (not all) law firms are extremely pedigree conscious.

* Most major universities have an intellectual property office or technology transfer office. They generally don't file patent applications themselves, but contract with various law firms. I suggest you talk to someone at your university and get introductions to patent attorneys and patent agents at the law firms they do business with. Then have a chat with them. Patent attorneys and patent agents work on "billable hours", and are reluctant to freely chit-chat. But if a major client they do a lot of business with first calls on your behalf, they will generally oblige. See what day-to-day (or hour-to-hour) life as a patent agent realistically is like before pursuing this option. It's not for everyone.

 

[dp647]

Are you shortchanging your abilities? It's hard to believe that a theoretical physics grad student in his fourth year does not have some inherent qualification, either in acquired knowledge or personal attributes that he can muster to devise a reasonable plan.

Regarding shortchanging abilities or knowledge, I do not believe so; what I have written is my dispassionate analysis of things. Regarding personal attributes, I desperately hope so; that's my last card to play.

If none of the jobs interest you, that is another problem.

Interest is a tricky thing. I think a person needs a sense of safety and self-confidence to entertain interests. Graduate school has eroded both to a great degree, and has had a way of making me quite numb to 'interest.' Therefore, I would say I am mostly neutral to jobs I've read about. There is one exception, which is jobs that would require me to think quickly on my feet; this I know from experience I just can't do, as I am the type of person who needs space and time to think through a problem carefully. Something like a quant/trader could never be for me.

This I find a bit concerning. You got into grad school somehow. Could it be correct that UG was easy, so you did not have to work too hard, only to find out grad school required a whole new level of endeavor? In grad school, being new to research, one is usually given more leeway to finish their project. In industry, you will be expected to deliver results on the company's schedule.

Undergrad was not easy by any stretch. I worked hard for my (now, I realize, meaningless) 4.0 GPA. Nevertheless, what you say about grad school being a whole new endeavor is true. I felt confident in what I did as an undergrad, but that is simply no longer the case. I felt stupid on day 1, and never felt any more competent thereafter.

You can't see how to leverage the above to your advantage?

Could you tell me more? I don't quite see, not in any structured way at least. How would you suggest I develop my coding? Would you recommend additional courses (at my institution, or online)?
As for my use of AI, I use it as a tool to implement code, to explain concepts to me, and to suggest ideas to try. I keep the interpretation of physics as my domain (AI is not very good at reading graphs to begin with).

 

[dp647]

You will need a prep course.

Is the USPTO not something one can self-study for, like the LSAT?

As a separate question, I have heard that patent agents (not attorneys) are under threat, or otherwise under pressure, from AI. The reason given is that the work of an agent does not carry the same legal liabilities as that of an attorney, and their work of collecting information about a potential patent and drafting standardized documents is something AI would be good at.
To what extent would you say this is true?