Furor over Native American Fashion Costume

[Vorde]

I have become aware of a scandal that has developed in the last couple days regarding a particular costume in the Victoria's Secret fashion show (which happened this week I think), and I was hoping some people could help me understand parts of it. I'll link to pictures of the costume in question at the bottom of my post, but the gist of it is that a model wore a Native American headdress and Native American ornaments as her costume. Since then, there has been a huge reaction to the costume, with allegations of racism causing Victoria's Secret to issue an apology and for the costume to be removed from the line and subsequent airings of the fashion show.

The thing is, I just don't see why the costume is racist. I've looked into this a bit, and apparently one of the ornaments the model was wearing has religious significance, in which case I understand calling the costume blasphemous, but not racist. Were the costume done in a mocking or satirical way I think I would be much more likely to see racism in it, but seeing as it is not, I just don't see why it is racist.

I'd love if some people could share their views and help me see what I am not seeing.
Thank you.


http://fashion.telegraph.co.uk/columns/olivia-bergin/TMG9672704/Victorias-Secret-apologises-over-American-Indian-outfit-in-catwalk-show.html
(I think it's SFW/safe to post on these forums - but considering it is Victoria's Secret I'd take heed)

 

[berkeman]

Wooshka!

What were we talking about again...?

 

[Evo]

People are over sensitive.

 

[micromass]

I'm not really seeing the racism here...

 

[BobG]

I'm not quite sure it's correct to say wearing the headdress was racist.

It was, however, a violation of the customs associated with the headdress.

This would be similar to if she had instead appeared in a bikini made from a US flag (the US flag should never be used as apparel, bedding, curtains, or as a covering for a ceiling). While a bikini made from a US flag is a violation of customs, it would be an exaggeration to say wearing it would make the model un-American.

 

[Jimmy Snyder]

I'm not going to buy my underwear there anymore.

 

[WannabeNewton]

It isn't racist. This country is filled with over - sensitive cry babies who have no satisfaction in life so they try to make a controversy out of every mundane thing. God bless America.

 

[leroyjenkens]

Looks more like an homage to Indians to me.
Funny how the line between homage and racism is a thin one.

This would be similar to if she had instead appeared in a bikini made from a US flag (the US flag should never be used as apparel, bedding, curtains, or as a covering for a ceiling). While a bikini made from a US flag is a violation of customs, it would be an exaggeration to say wearing it would make the model un-American.

Yes, but the headdresses are meant to be worn.

 

[Vorde]

Looks more like an homage to Indians to me.
Funny how the line between homage and racism is a thin one.

Yes, but the headdresses are meant to be worn.

Not by women apparently, regardless of whether or not that is sexist.

I'm glad I'm not alone here though.

 

[lisab]

OK to play devil's advocate: What is OK to dress up as, like for Halloween:

A Chinese peasant farmer?
A Bedouin?
An African tribesman?

 

[micromass]

OK to play devil's advocate: What is OK to dress up as, like for Halloween:

A Chinese peasant farmer?
A Bedouin?
An African tribesman?

Seems fine to me, actually...

 

[WannabeNewton]

OK to play devil's advocate: What is OK to dress up as, like for Halloween:

A Chinese peasant farmer?
A Bedouin?
An African tribesman?

I see nothing wrong in dressing up as any of these things. I would rather see those than the costumes of the hundreds of teenage \ adult women consisting of the most skimpy, inappropriate clothing one can conceive that I usually see. Regardless, in the end it is just clothing and I find it sad the people mentioned in the article make such a big deal out of it. Don't they have anything better to do with their lives?

 

[drizzle]

OK to play devil's advocate: What is OK to dress up as, like for Halloween:

A Chinese peasant farmer?
A Bedouin?
An African tribesman?

Ghaddafi.

 

[trueo]

http://fashion.telegraph.co.uk/columns/olivia-bergin/TMG9672704/Victorias-Secret-apologises-over-American-Indian-outfit-in-catwalk-show.html
(I think it's SFW/safe to post on these forums - but considering it is Victoria's Secret I'd take heed)

It looks like a nude festival.
I guess, many American people who are not Native American may consider the native as poor farmers; those with outdated ideas, thoughts, etc. They act as if they never had their past lives, perhaps they would never have any.

 

[russ_watters]

OK to play devil's advocate: What is OK to dress up as, like for Halloween:

A Chinese peasant farmer?
A Bedouin?
An African tribesman?

All of those are fine because there are few enough in the US that they are unlikely to complain.

 

[Curious3141]

Funny how no one seems to take offence that they're *still* referred to (and often referring to themselves) as "Indians".

One of my favourite quotes is from the movie "Quiz Show": "They're "Indians" because some white guy got lost."

 

[lisab]

OK to play devil's advocate: What is OK to dress up as, like for Halloween:

A Chinese peasant farmer?
A Bedouin?
An African tribesman?

So it seems no one has any issue so far. Let's take it a bit further, as a thought experiment.

A Chinese peasant farmer - would you use those fake teeth cartoonists used to portray people of Asian decent in the 1950s? Would you alter your eyes?

A Bedouin - would you make reference to having a harem of women, or a bunch of camels? Would you joke about being illiterate?

An African tribeman - would you darken your skin? Wear a grass skirt and carry a spear?

 

[DavidSnider]

I think it's more along the lines of the "American Flag Bikini" mentioned earlier. It's not about racism, it's about know-nothing corporations trivializing something culturally important.

For example, if they had a "Sexy Nun" costume the Catholic League would throw a fit.

 

[rootX]

I didn't notice a single mention of the word racism in the whole article.

But, just some people found it offensive which I find reasonable.

"Being a American Indian woman and mother, I am disgusted at the recent picture of your non-Native model dressed inappropriately with a war bonnet on her head, not to mention all the other culturally wrong messages this image sends to the world" wrote Charlene Hunt.

 

[Integral]

The super intendent of schools in Oregon has ruled that there can be no Native American references in High School mascots and name. My high school teams the Roseburg Indians, must change its name.

 

[Evo]

It would seem that they found the outfit disrespectful. I'd agree with that, that was a pretty tacky bathing suit.

 

[WannabeNewton]

It would seem that they found the outfit disrespectful. I'd agree with that, that was a pretty tacky bathing suit.

Still doesn't change that people are way too sensitive. It is just clothing for pete's sake. People need to start getting offended at things that actually matter.

 

[rootX]

Still doesn't change that people are way too sensitive. It is just clothing for pete's sake. People need to start getting offended at things that actually matter.

It's being human to give high respect for few things in your life and get offended when others disrespect those things.

things that actually matter

Different people have different things that actually matter to them.

 

[encorp]

Native Americans are a people struggling to preserve their culture. Things like this water down their culture, by promoting their cultural clothing as every day use. Kids in schools sometimes wear these pieces since they are sold at popular clothing stores like H&M and other clothing stores aimed at tweens/teens etc.

It's like if these stores sold yamakas for kids to wear. Though I think that it's a little crazy to be too up in arms about it, I think it's important for people to respect cultural artifacts... and since Victorias Secret is lacking in the talent to create a truly artistic shoe piece and march it down the isle, I find it insensitive to usurp something with a lot of meaning to some people and parade it so meaninglessly.

Keep in mind, I know that VS does not sell these.. but if you've got kids right now, you probably are well aware at just how prevalent Native American headdresses are in their fashion world... also, remember.. not a single Native American complained when moccasins were marched down runways.. they are only upset with this because it has a different meaning to them.

 

[WannabeNewton]

Different people have different things that actually matter to them.

Yes and I'm just saying it is quite pitiful that ethnic clothing is one of those things. This isn't the first time something like this has happened to companies in the US and isn't limited to just Native American clothing. When a company has to issue a public apology because a group of people were offended over the use of clothing then there is a real lack of priority present.

 

[Drakkith]

This is about as racist as a model going down the walkway in cowboy boots, a cowboy hat, and with a bikini made from cowhide to look like a Texan. Well, maybe not racist exactly, but about as stereotypical.

 

[Jobrag]

I can't remember a similar row about the Native American / Indian in the Village People's video of YMCA, I'm not sure whether it's because we're more sensitive to things like this these days, or whether the internet gives the thin sknined a public place to air their outrage.

 

[russ_watters]

A Chinese peasant farmer - would you use those fake teeth cartoonists used to portray people of Asian decent in the 1950s?

My understanding is that that was intentionally offensive.

 

[Monique]

What a nonsense. I could understand an uproar if it were a real war bonnet, but it isn't.

During the last Eurovision Song Festival the Dutch singer Joan Franka was threatened by the Real Indian Nation for wearing a Native American-style headdress.

This guy should also leave his headdress home at tonight's Netherlands-Germany soccer match?

 

[russ_watters]

I can't remember a similar row about the Native American / Indian in the Village People's video of YMCA, I'm not sure whether it's because we're more sensitive to things like this these days, or whether the internet gives the thin sknined a public place to air their outrage.

It appears to me to be a recent phenomena and it includes college mascots as well.

 

[Andre]

Oh and, Niqqie, don't forget Zwarte Piet and the debates about it.

 

[Greg Bernhardt]

What a nonsense. I could understand an uproar if it were a real war bonnet, but it isn't.

Apparently the war bonnet is of spiritual importance. Would it be accepted if a singer wore a pope mitre on TV as fashion style?

 

[BobG]

The super intendent of schools in Oregon has ruled that there can be no Native American references in High School mascots and name. My high school teams the Roseburg Indians, must change its name.

Now this is an overreaction. Using Native American references, especially in an area where Native Americans played a significant part of the area's history, is not offensive.

However, some team nicknames are pretty offensive. The Washington Redskins would be the obvious example.

 

[Monique]

Would it be accepted if a singer wore a pope mitre on TV as fashion style?

Yeah, why not? Coincidentally coming Sunday many children and adults in the Netherlands will dress up with a mitre on their head. Should bishops protest?

"Saint Nicholas wears a long red cape or chasuble over a traditional white bishop's alb and sometimes red stola, dons a red mitre, and holds a gold-coloured crosier, a long ceremonial shepherd's staff with a fancy curled top."

http://www.youngmindz.nl/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/sinterklaas.jpg

 

[leroyjenkens]

Funny how no one seems to take offence that they're *still* referred to (and often referring to themselves) as "Indians".

I call them American Indians because the name "native American" is inaccurate. I'll gladly call them whatever name they referred to themselves as, but I haven't heard one yet.

I have an American Indian friend who calls himself Indian.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

People have way too much time to sit around and be offended. To me it seems more a form of flattery than disrespect. But then about the only thing that really offends me anymore is the thought of Jimmy buying his underwear at VS.

 

[lisab]

There's a distinction between an homage and a caricature. First off, the whole purpose of this ad is to sell something, so there's really no room for a true homage, IMO.

On Halloween 1999, my ex dressed up as the Y2K bug. It was funny and clever.

Dressing up as a waffle would be funny and weird.

Dressing up as a...race? wth?

 

[Ivan Seeking]

There's a distinction between an homage and a caricature. First off, the whole purpose of this ad is to sell something, so there's really no room for a true homage, IMO.

On Halloween 1999, my ex dressed up as the Y2K bug. It was funny and clever.

Dressing up as a waffle would be funny and weird.

Dressing up as a...race? wth?

But it is a costume worn by a race, not a race issue. I don't think someone dressing up as the pope or a witch is offensive either. So I guess I just don't get the religious bit.

Shouldn't members of wicca be offended by the caricature of witches?

 

[Monique]

Dressing up as a...race? wth?

If I'd wear a bowler, I'd insult the English.
If I'd wear a ushanka, I'd insult the Russians.
If I'd wear a baseball cap, I'd insult the Americans.
If I'd wear a straw hat, I'd insult the Amish.
If I'd wear a conical hat, I'd insult the Asians.
If I'd wear a turban, I'd insult the Islam/Sikh/Rastafari/Jewish communities.
If I'd wear a sombrero, I'd insult the Mexicans.
If I'd wear a tam, I'd insult the Scottish.
If I'd wear a Greek fisherman's cap, I'd insult the Greek.
If I'd wear a fez, I'd insult the Mediterranean people.
If I'd wear a cowboy hat, I'd insult the Texans.
If I'd wear a Aussie bush hat, I'd insult the Austrians.
If I'd wear a beret, I'd insult the French.

I guess there is only one thing left for me to wear:
http://www.onthemovearoundeurope.org/1900/fashion/fashion1900w_files/image138.jpg

Now that's called stereotyping.

People should be free to wear what they're comfortable in and not be labeled as insulting other religions/cultures because of it: it's called tolerance.

 

[lisab]

But it is a costume worn by a race, not a race issue. I don't think someone dressing up as the pope or a witch is offensive either. So I guess I just don't get the religious bit.

Shouldn't members of wicca be offended by the caricature of witches?

I have no idea if a real witch would be offended by a 'typical' witch costume - perhaps she'd see it as a teachable moment?

 

[Ivan Seeking]

I have no idea if a real witch would be offended by a 'typical' witch costume - perhaps she'd see it as a teachable moment?

Well, wicca is a religion. And the members are witches. So how is this not a religious issue? Why are witches fair game but not Native American religions?

 

[russ_watters]

Shouldn't members of wicca be offended by the caricature of witches?

I know a few. They aren't offended by anything.

Lisa: homage or caricature? Neither.

I would argue that the word caricature is being misapplied here. A caricature is an intentionally negative exaggerated depiction and halloween costumes and leopard print bras are not typically intended for that. Kids don't dress up as Indians and firemen on halloween because they are trying to be insulting, they just like playing make believe.

 

[russ_watters]

Well, wicca is a religion. And the members are witches. So how is this not a religious issue? Why are witches fair game but not Native American religions?

It is strictly an issue of volume.

 

[WannabeNewton]

People have way too much time to sit around and be offended.

I couldn't agree more mate.

 

[zoobyshoe]

I guess I'm the only one here who can explain the Native American reaction.

The so-called "War Bonnet" was not an ornament. Each feather was earned by an act of bravery in battle, especially one of "counting coup", which entailed riding very close to an enemy armed with nothing but a stick, whacking him with the stick, and making it away with your life and limbs intact. A feather could also be earned by killing an enemy, or by stealing enemy horses from under their noses, that sort of thing. The closest thing we have to this are military decorations: the purple heart, medal of honor, etc.

A Plains Indian wearing a full war bonnet was displaying a lifetime of military courage in many battles. They tended, of course, to be the elders therefore, and would have represented the Indian equivalent of the very highest ranking officers.

The feathers come from the tail of the Golden Eagle (not the Bald). There's a whole procedure for catching a Golden Eagle to get its tail feathers that requires spiritual preparation and purification, etc. They didn't just go out and shoot one with an arrow, like hunting for food. The feathers are then closely guarded by shamen until someone earns one, and there must be a meeting of war leaders and a kind of inquest with witnesses to make sure the brave deed actually happened as claimed.

The other incredibly offensive thing arises from the fact that Native Americans, in general, are vastly more modest about sex and sexual issues than the average church-going white person. Most of their cultures have a vast network of sexual taboos. In other words, the bulk of Native Americans were nothing like the Polynesians. If a Native American woman appeared in public in something like a bikini everyone present would have just about died of shame and guilt.

So, as the woman in the article said, this VS outfit sends about every culturally wrong message about Native Americans it could. It should be obvious that people just don't like being grossly misrepresented.

 

[Vorde]

The other incredibly offensive thing arises from the fact that Native Americans, in general, are vastly more modest about sex and sexual issues than the average church-going white person. Most of their cultures have a vast network of sexual taboos. In other words, the bulk of Native Americans were nothing like the Polynesians. If a Native American woman appeared in public in something like a bikini everyone present would have just about died of shame and guilt.

But yet I've seen 'sexy' nun costumes on numerous occasions, with no negative response. What would you say the difference there is? Or would you say a negative reaction in the nun case would be equally justified?

 

[rootX]

I guess I'm the only one here who can explain the Native American reaction.

The so-called "War Bonnet" was not an ornament. Each feather was earned by an act of bravery in battle, especially one of "counting coup", which entailed riding very close to an enemy armed with nothing but a stick, whacking him with the stick, and making it away with your life and limbs intact. A feather could also be earned by killing an enemy, or by stealing enemy horses from under their noses, that sort of thing. The closest thing we have to this are military decorations: the purple heart, medal of honor, etc.

A Plains Indian wearing a full war bonnet was displaying a lifetime of military courage in many battles. They tended, of course, to be the elders therefore, and would have represented the Indian equivalent of the very highest ranking officers.

The feathers come from the tail of the Golden Eagle (not the Bald). There's a whole procedure for catching a Golden Eagle to get its tail feathers that requires spiritual preparation and purification, etc. They didn't just go out and shoot one with an arrow, like hunting for food. The feathers are then closely guarded by shamen until someone earns one, and there must be a meeting of war leaders and a kind of inquest with witnesses to make sure the brave deed actually happened as claimed.

The other incredibly offensive thing arises from the fact that Native Americans, in general, are vastly more modest about sex and sexual issues than the average church-going white person. Most of their cultures have a vast network of sexual taboos. In other words, the bulk of Native Americans were nothing like the Polynesians. If a Native American woman appeared in public in something like a bikini everyone present would have just about died of shame and guilt.

So, as the woman in the article said, this VS outfit sends about every culturally wrong message about Native Americans it could. It should be obvious that people just don't like being grossly misrepresented.

I had some general idea about earning those feathers. I feel it's being ignorant calling "War Bonnet" a piece of decoration or piece of ethnic clothing. Atheists/scientific minded people just appear to fail at understanding significance of cultures and cultural objects to our society IMO.

 

[rootX]

But yet I've seen 'sexy' nun costumes on numerous occasions, with no negative response. What would you say the difference there is? Or would you say a negative reaction in the nun case would be equally justified?

People have to aware enough to tell the difference between what's right and wrong without needing negative/positive responses.

 

[russ_watters]

I'm former Navy and I've seen womens' clothing with stylized insignia including medals and rank insignia. I couldn't possibly care any less. Use of official insignia as a fashion accessory - particularly obsolete insignia - is not an insult.

People should know when they are being insulted and when they aren't.

 

[Vorde]

People have to aware enough to tell the difference between what's right and wrong without needing negative/positive responses.

Of course, but I think this isn't a case of that. It's an issue of who you are focusing your attention towards.

For instance, as someone who's family went through the holocaust and didn't all make it through, I'm very aware of being extremely sensitive with regards to talking about that period with people who I know or suspect have connections to those events.

But I'm totally okay with, and laugh at jokes targeting the same period when performed in comedic venues like a stand up show.

Whether or not something is offensive comes largely down to who you are targeting with your comment or image or whatever.

But someone who would take offense at the scantily clothed models or the misuse of the headdress (admittedly the significance of which I did not know until zooby's post) probably isn't who is going to be watching or wearing Victoria's secret. To go further onto that, I don't think the costume was offensive in any way.

Ignorant maybe, but that's not new.