Physical asymmetry from symmetry

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of temporal asymmetries in nature and how they can be reconciled with the symmetric foundations of quantum mechanics and relativity. Participants explore whether a unified theory can account for phenomena like the second law of thermodynamics and the matter/antimatter asymmetry without introducing new physics, particularly through the lens of quantum cosmology.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that quantum mechanics and relativity are fundamentally symmetric with respect to time, questioning how this symmetry can coexist with observed temporal asymmetries in nature.
  • One participant suggests that the Higgs potential might introduce randomness necessary to break symmetry, potentially explaining the arrow of time through the relationship between true and false vacuum states.
  • Another participant challenges the existence of a time's arrow in physics, citing that it may only be relevant in certain cosmological frameworks like loop quantum gravity (LQG), which defines time by the universe's expansion.
  • There is mention of interpretations of electromagnetism and quantum mechanics that take symmetry seriously, such as the Wheeler-Feynmann absorber interpretation and Cramer's transactional interpretation.
  • Some participants express uncertainty about the implications of the second law of thermodynamics on the concept of time's arrow, indicating a need for clarification on whether this law implies a directional flow of time.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the existence and implications of a time's arrow in physics. Some argue for its relevance, while others contest its presence in established theories, indicating that the discussion remains unresolved.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations regarding the definitions of time and the assumptions underlying the interpretations of quantum mechanics and relativity. The discussion also reflects varying perspectives on the implications of the second law of thermodynamics.

Loren Booda
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I recall that in their most basic form, quantum mechanics and relativity do not distinguish between past and future. That is, they are each symmetric with respect to time.

How then does a unified theory account for temporal assymetries in nature without introducing new physics? Can one solely use, say, quantum cosmology to account for the 2nd law of thermodynamics? To explain the matter/antimatter asymmetry of the universe?

The Higgs potential is a mathematically symmetric entity that forces disequilibrium. Perhaps the Higgs itself introduces the singular randomness needed to break the otherwise symmetric wavefunction and metric. Does time's arrow arise from this skew between the true and false vacuum?
 
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Better informed people can correct me, but I don't think there's any time's arrow in any physics from Newton to Witten, including Einstein and Feynman. Only the LQG cosmologists may have one since they define their time by the expansion of the universe.

As to how they handle it, they just throw away the "advanced" solutions.

There are of course the two great examples of taking this symmetry seriously: The Wheeler-Feynmann absorber interpetation of Maxwellian electromagnetism, and Cramer's transactional interpretation of QM.
 
Originally posted by selfAdjoint
Better informed people can correct me, but I don't think there's any time's arrow in any physics from Newton to Witten, including Einstein and Feynman. Only the LQG cosmologists may have one since they define their time by the expansion of the universe.

I thought the idea was that the second law of thermodynamics at least implied an arrow of time.
 
Originally posted by Loren Booda
I recall that in their most basic form, quantum mechanics and relativity do not distinguish between past and future. That is, they are each symmetric with respect to time.
do you mean that mathematically they don't distinguish between future and past?
 
In theory, I believe so, lqg.
 

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