Deriving 3 Momentum & Angular Momentum Operators of Maxwell Lagrangian

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the derivation of the momentum and angular momentum operators associated with the Maxwell Lagrangian through Noether's theorem. Participants seek resources and explanations for understanding these derivations within the context of quantum field theory (QFT) and classical electrodynamics.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Homework-related

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants inquire about books or resources that provide a clear derivation of the momentum and angular momentum operators from the Maxwell Lagrangian using Noether's theorem.
  • One participant suggests F. Gross' "Relativistic Quantum Mechanics and Field Theory" as a potential resource but notes that it does not derive the operators, only performs calculations with them.
  • Another participant proposes calculating the energy-momentum tensor \( T^{\mu\nu} \) and angular momentum tensor \( M^{\lambda}_{~~\mu\nu} \) from the Lagrangian using the general Noether formula.
  • There is a discussion about the relationship between the energy-momentum tensor and the momentum operators, specifically identifying \( T^{0i} \) as the momentum and \( T^{00} \) as the energy.
  • Some participants express frustration that many resources use the results without providing derivations, indicating a desire for more foundational explanations.
  • One participant mentions Maggiore's "Modern Introduction to QFT" as another potential resource for understanding the derivation of angular momentum in electromagnetism.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the importance of finding a thorough derivation of the operators but express differing opinions on the adequacy of existing resources. There is no consensus on a single definitive source or method for deriving the operators.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the discussion involves both quantum field theory and classical electrodynamics, with some contributions focusing on the mathematical formalism while others emphasize the need for conceptual clarity. The discussion remains open-ended regarding the derivation process and the resources available.

Petraa
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Hello,

Where can I find a good explanation (book) of the derivation via Noether's theorem of the three momentum and angular momentum operators of the usual maxwell lagrangian ?

Thank you!
 
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This is standard QFT (actually QED) material, any thorough book should have it. Check out a nice treatment in Chapter 2 of F. Gross' "Relativistic Quantum Mechanics and Field Theory", Wiley, 1999.

In purely classical context (no operators), advanced electrodynamics books should also have this.
 
dextercioby said:
This is standard QFT (actually QED) material, any thorough book should have it. Check out a nice treatment in Chapter 2 of F. Gross' "Relativistic Quantum Mechanics and Field Theory", Wiley, 1999.

In purely classical context (no operators), advanced electrodynamics books should also have this.

I've been watching the book and yes, the book treats it but don't deduce them. He just announces and perform some calculations with them
 
Can you calculate T^{\mu\nu} and M^{\lambda}_{~~\mu\nu} from the Lagrangian and the general Noether formula which for the energy-momentum 4 tensor reads:

T^{\mu}_{~~\nu} = (\frac{\partial \mathcal{L}}{\partial(\partial_{\mu}A_{\rho})} -\mathcal{L}\delta^{\mu}_{\lambda}) X \frac{\partial x'^{\lambda}}{\partial\epsilon^{\nu}},

where

x'^{\mu} = x^{\mu} + \epsilon^{\mu}
 
Last edited:
dextercioby said:
Can you calculate T^{\mu\nu} and M^{\lambda}_{~~\mu\nu} from the Lagrangian and the general Noether formula which for the energy-momentum 4 tensor reads:

T^{\mu}_{~~\nu} = (\frac{\partial \mathcal{L}}{\partial(\partial_{\mu}A_{\rho})} -\mathcal{L}\delta^{\mu}_{\lambda}) X \frac{\partial x'^{\lambda}}{\partial\epsilon^{\nu}},

where

x'^{\mu} = x^{\mu} + \epsilon^{\mu}

I'll try it.
 
dextercioby said:
Can you calculate T^{\mu\nu} and M^{\lambda}_{~~\mu\nu} from the Lagrangian and the general Noether formula which for the energy-momentum 4 tensor reads:

T^{\mu}_{~~\nu} = (\frac{\partial \mathcal{L}}{\partial(\partial_{\mu}A_{\rho})} -\mathcal{L}\delta^{\mu}_{\lambda}) X \frac{\partial x'^{\lambda}}{\partial\epsilon^{\nu}},

where

x'^{\mu} = x^{\mu} + \epsilon^{\mu}

T^{\mu\nu}=-F^{\mu\nu}\partial^{\nu}A_{\rho}+\frac{1}{4}F^{2}g^{\mu\nu}

And now? How I relate this to the momentum and total angular momentum operators ?
 
The momentum should be T^{0i}, just like energy is T^{00}. For angular momentum, you should derive the general formula using the linearized version of a general Lorentz transformation (i.e. a linearized space-time rotation):

x'μ=xμμ ν xν, where

ϵμν = - ϵνμ

A minor change

Tμν=−FμρνAρ+1/4 F2gμν
 
Petraa said:
Hello,

Where can I find a good explanation (book) of the derivation via Noether's theorem of the three momentum and angular momentum operators of the usual maxwell lagrangian ?
Thank you!
I too would be interested in seeing this for EM angular momentum.
Every place, I have looked seems to use the result in some form without actually deriving it.
 
Petraa said:
Hello,

Where can I find a good explanation (book) of the derivation via Noether's theorem of the three momentum and angular momentum operators of the usual maxwell lagrangian ?

Thank you!

Maggiore "Modern introduction in QFT"
 

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