So How does PF operate? If you don't mind me asking

[Saladsamurai]

First off, I love this site. Great work to whomever came up with the idea. I love the PF focus on legitimacy of knowledge.

I was just curious, have all the mentors met personally or did you collaborate online?

How do you go about recruiting HW helpers? I assume they are compensated? How does PF generate money to do so? Is it via member contributions and the banner ads?

I was just curious about your operation. I have noticed little things that peaked my curiosity, like the fact that Dick has over 4000 posts but is not the author of any of them.

Stuff like that.
Forgive me if I am prying

 

[Astronuc]

So How does PF operate?

Electrons and photons mostly.

 

[Evo]

This is an all volunteer site. No one gets paid, Homework Helpers help for free out of a love for learning and the kindness and generosity in their hearts to share their knowledge. No one, not the admins, the mentors, nor the science advisors make a cent either.

PF is a beautiful example of people coming together to create something with the purpose to help, to learn, and to create a sense of community among people that share a love of science and not for monetary gain.

To answer your other questions, some mentors have met, some haven't. We have mentors around the world.

We don't recruit homework helpers. We recognize members here that have displayed the characteristics mentioned above.

When you say that Dick is not the author of his posts, do you mean that he is citing appropriate peer reviewed work that would answer a person's question?

 

[d_leet]

When you say that Dick is not the author of his posts, do you mean that he is citing appropriate peer reviewed work that would answer a person's question?

I think he means that Dick has never started a thread, but only responed to others', or at least a search would lead one to believe that.

 

[Evo]

I think he means that Dick has never started a thread, but only responed to others', or at least a search would lead one to believe that.

If he's helping with homework, that would make sense.

 

[Astronuc]

If he's helping with homework, that would make sense.

Which is primarily the case.

 

[G01]

As Evo said, this is an all volunteer site. The origin of PF was, if I know as much PF history as I think I do, as an extra credit project for Greg Bernhardt's high school physics class back in 2003. That was way before my time here, but it's always good to know your roots!

Greg, along with chroot, are the admins here and they keep the site functioning (as I like to think, they are the ones who constantly keep the server from exploding), and do a fine job at it. The mentors are the ones who keep the forums from exploding into incoherent babble and insult wars. The homework helpers are the ones who keep the Homework forums from exploding into "Do my homework for me" sessions. And last, but surely not least, the science advisers keep the science forums from exploding into "Quantum Physics let's me control things with my mind" discussions.

In short, PF functions around the common belief that explosions are bad.

For a list of the people who help keep PF running in their own way, check out the "staff" link at the top of the page.

 

[Evo]

In short, PF functions around the common belief that explosions are bad.

By jove, I've think he's got it!

 

[G01]

By jove, I've think he's got it!

I believe I just created the "golden rule" of PF!

Now we can replace that long list of rules members agree to with the following:

In order to become a member of the PF community you must agree with the following PF philosophy and rules:Explosions are bad.Agree Disagree

 

[Evo]

I believe I just created the "golden rule" of PF!

Now we can replace that long list of rules members agree to with the following:

In order to become a member of the PF community you must agree with the following PF philosophy and rules:


Explosions are bad.


Agree Disagree

I think that would have a much greater impact!

Hey, you survived your Christmas party!

 

[G01]

Hey, you survived your Christmas party!

It was tough, but I made it out alive! Whenever someone started to annoy me, I decided to focus all my attention on the Christmas cookies I was shoving down my throat!

Now I only need to make it through one more party tomorrow! At least this one is not at my house.

 

[mattmns]

Wow, amazing that with 4000+ posts that Dick has not started a thread of his own! He has helped me numerous times with homework questions! Here's to Dick!

 

[Huckleberry]

I'm curious about the evolution of this site. How did it go from a physics class project to what it is today? What was done to keep it on track in the beginning, before the mentors were selected? I'd guess that Greg and Chroot had a much more hands on role then. How were the PF guidelines chosen? How did this site attract the attention of so many knowledgeable people?

 

[Cyrus]

I get paid, I just don't tell anyone. Thank you PAYPAL.

 

[Greg Bernhardt]

I'm curious about the evolution of this site. How did it go from a physics class project to what it is today? What was done to keep it on track in the beginning, before the mentors were selected? I'd guess that Greg and Chroot had a much more hands on role then. How were the PF guidelines chosen? How did this site attract the attention of so many knowledgeable people?

I was into web design and the internet culture long before my physics project. For a reason lost to me now I decided to stick with it and actually try to make it work. Afterall what I showed my teacher was nothing more than a default install with a couple forums and a few posts lol. Early on I found people like Monique and Phobos. They are the original mentors. However, the forums were not at all on track in the beginning. I even had crackpots as mentors as I didn't have a background in physics or had support to make such decisions. But like I said in Tom Mattson's retirement thread, once he was on board everything started to change. He helped create a structure and philosophy that was quality oriented. chroot was actually recruited from another forum. He was brought on as admin once I recognized he was very good at programming and server management. The guidelines are something that is discussed between the staff. What you see today is the result of a lot of learning and trial and error. Always changed or tweaked with the goal of bettering the site. A site like PF is rare and when someone sees quality like this they tend to tell their friends about it. We also try our best to filter out the jokers and crackpots. You'd be surprised how many members we have banned, all with good reason. So really the only credit I can give myself, is that I'm darn good at surrounding myself with the best advisors around. So the phrase, it's not what you know, but who you know. That is the key to my own personal success in PF :)

 

[Saladsamurai]

Evo: It does make sense if he's helping with HW. But what struck me as odd and gave me the impression that HW helpers were compensated was that's all he does! He has not started one thread of his own. And sad to say, it struck me as odd. That is, I found it odd that someone, and now I have realized that you all do the same, would willingly volunteer their time helping others and not expect anything in return.

Unfortunately, IMO, the world we live in does not lend itself to this kind of thinking all too often.

Well, here's to Greg and all the rest of the crew; I do not know what I would do without you. Merry Christmas! And happy other respective Holidays, whatever they may be.

Keep up the phenomenal work. Maybe I'll have the pleasure of meeting some of you someday.

Casey

 

[Astronuc]

It does make sense if he's helping with HW. But what struck me as odd and gave me the impression that HW helpers were compensated was that's all he does! He has not started one thread of his own. And sad to say, it struck me as odd. That is, I found it odd that someone, and now I have realized that you all do the same, would willingly volunteer their time helping others and not expect anything in return.

There is the satisfaction of working with people, particularly in the HW sections, and seeing them be successful. In the HW section, the objective is to work someone through a problem so that not only will they obtain the correct answer, but they will understand the math and physics of the problem.

In the other forums, it is a matter of providing quality information and exchanging ideas. There are quite a few academics and professionals participating in PF.

 

[ZapperZ]

Evo: It does make sense if he's helping with HW. But what struck me as odd and gave me the impression that HW helpers were compensated was that's all he does! He has not started one thread of his own. And sad to say, it struck me as odd. That is, I found it odd that someone, and now I have realized that you all do the same, would willingly volunteer their time helping others and not expect anything in return.

I would consider someone like that as extremely unselfish. Considering the fact that he's here only to offer help to others makes us feel lucky to have someone like that on board.

Zz.

 

[out of whack]

Someone who knows Dick should tell him about being complimented here...

(Hey... cool future PF feature: posts will be scanned against the members list and subscription to a thread will be triggered for members mentioned in it so they know when their ears should be burning. )

 

[Saladsamurai]

I would consider someone like that as extremely unselfish. Considering the fact that he's here only to offer help to others makes us feel lucky to have someone like that on board.

Zz.

Here here! (That's what people say when they toast right?)

 

[ranger]

I'm curious about the evolution of this site. How did it go from a physics class project to what it is today? What was done to keep it on track in the beginning, before the mentors were selected? I'd guess that Greg and Chroot had a much more hands on role then. How were the PF guidelines chosen? How did this site attract the attention of so many knowledgeable people?

If you're curious to see how PF has evolved over time, have a look here:
http://web.archive.org/web/*/https://www.physicsforums.com

 

[Evo]

If you're curious to see how PF has evolved over time, have a look here:
http://web.archive.org/web/*/https://www.physicsforums.com

Thanks for posting that ranger! It's always fun to see how much the forum has changed.

 

[Huckleberry]

I was into web design and the internet culture long before my physics project. For a reason lost to me now I decided to stick with it and actually try to make it work. Afterall what I showed my teacher was nothing more than a default install with a couple forums and a few posts lol. Early on I found people like Monique and Phobos. They are the original mentors. However, the forums were not at all on track in the beginning. I even had crackpots as mentors as I didn't have a background in physics or had support to make such decisions. But like I said in Tom Mattson's retirement thread, once he was on board everything started to change. He helped create a structure and philosophy that was quality oriented. chroot was actually recruited from another forum. He was brought on as admin once I recognized he was very good at programming and server management. The guidelines are something that is discussed between the staff. What you see today is the result of a lot of learning and trial and error. Always changed or tweaked with the goal of bettering the site. A site like PF is rare and when someone sees quality like this they tend to tell their friends about it. We also try our best to filter out the jokers and crackpots. You'd be surprised how many members we have banned, all with good reason. So really the only credit I can give myself, is that I'm darn good at surrounding myself with the best advisors around. So the phrase, it's not what you know, but who you know. That is the key to my own personal success in PF :)

I agree that you have done an excellent job of finding and selecting advisors. I especially enjoy how they often have contrasting viewpoints on almost any subject. Where a group of like-minded individuals would form standards to suit their specific viewpoint, the variety of opinions of the mentors and admin at PF creates a more democratic system. I think this is a large contributing factor to the success of this site. There is something here for everyone. The guidelines offer anyone an opportunity to contribute.

I think that is what attracted me to this site over others. I encountered PF while looking up some information on Dr. Michio Kaku after reading Hyperspace. The quality of the arguments and viewpoints expressed here are generally superior to other sites. They aren't allowed to degrade too far into pointless bickering, and the standards for quality of knowledge are high. This site has both flavor and ardor.

I can easily see why PF would attract both people interested in legitimate science, and jokers and crackpots. I'm not sure which side of that fence I fall on, but you've got an excellent site here nonetheless. Keep up the good work!

If you're curious to see how PF has evolved over time, have a look here:
http://web.archive.org/web/*/https://www.physicsforums.com

I couldn't get access to most of the links at that site, but it looks like PF has gone through many cosmetic changes over the years. There seem to have been some changes that I don't remember seeing since I registed at PF. I must have missed those when I was away for several months.

 

[ranger]

I couldn't get access to most of the links at that site, but it looks like PF has gone through many cosmetic changes over the years. There seem to have been some changes that I don't remember seeing since I registed at PF. I must have missed those when I was away for several months.

Yup, sometimes the links point to nowhere. But if you keep clicking around, you'll find a topic that has been archived. For example, here is a thread that was started by our former mentor, Tom. The first page was archived.
Math/Physics Napster

Something makes me think that S&D came from "Mystics and Pseudo Science"
http://web.archive.org/web/20021209154932/www.physicsforums.com/forum.asp?FORUM_ID=23

 

[Saladsamurai]

I don't know why I marked this thread as solved I just felt like it. You know what, after I did it, I laughed just as hard as I thought I was going to!

 

[Mk]

This is an all volunteer site. No one gets paid,

I believe one person is

 

[binzing]

Sweet! Sounds like there'll be plenty of help around for me next year when I take AP Physics!

 

[Mk]

Oh yeah, don't you worry binzing.

 

[binzing]

I'll have to tell my science teacher about the HW help on this forum. He's the same guy that teaches AP physics at our high school

 

[Danger]

I'll have to tell my science teacher about the HW help on this forum. He's the same guy that teaches AP physics at our high school

You never know... he might be here already in a pseudonym...

And what amazes me about this site is that someone like me, with no formal education, can occassionally help someone. I love to teach (but that's primarily restricted to pool playing), and if once in a while I can steer someone in the right direction, that's an extreme moment of pride for me. And above that, there are experts here who will shut me down if I'm steering in the wrong direction. That is excellent, since it not only protects someone from my bad advice, but educates me as to why it was bad.
Long live PF, and thank you Greg for providing it.

 

[Shooting Star]

I believe one person is

Joking or serious?

 

[chroot]

No one gets paid. Even when there is a "budget surplus" here it's barely enough to buy a few pitchers of beer. Seriously.

- Warren

 

[Shooting Star]

That's even better! Saves most of you the trouble of going out and exchanging cash for beer.

 

[Dick]

Someone who knows Dick should tell him about being complimented here...

(Hey... cool future PF feature: posts will be scanned against the members list and subscription to a thread will be triggered for members mentioned in it so they know when their ears should be burning. )

I notice that no one has made the obvious suggestion that Dick hasn't created a new thread because he doesn't know how.

 

[Astronuc]

I notice that no one has made the obvious suggestion that Dick hasn't created a new thread because he doesn't know how.

Going after the funniest member award for 2008, I see.

On each forum page, on the left just above the list of topics/threads - look for the "New Topic" button.

 

[Shooting Star]

Going after the funniest member award for 2008, I see.

On each forum page, on the left just above the list of topics/threads - look for the "New Topic" button.

Are you going for it now, by actually replying?

 

[wildman]

What is amazing to me is the SPEED that questions are answered in the math and physics homework sections. It is almost impossible to answer any questions there since they always seems to be answered already. Nothing sits for every long.

There is a problem with the engineering section though. I try to help with the occasional signal processing question (if it is not too hard), but there is in general a shortage there. It would be nice if some of the physics and math speedsters would make it a point to check that section occasionally for questions that they can field. Afterall most engineering is just math and science.

 

[D H]

Going after the funniest member award for 2008, I see.

No! Please don't throw Dick in the volcano!

 

[Dick]

What is amazing to me is the SPEED that questions are answered in the math and physics homework sections. It is almost impossible to answer any questions there since they always seems to be answered already. Nothing sits for every long.

There is a problem with the engineering section though. I try to help with the occasional signal processing question (if it is not too hard), but there is in general a shortage there. It would be nice if some of the physics and math speedsters would make it a point to check that section occasionally for questions that they can field. Afterall most engineering is just math and science.

Math/physics is easy. Engineering is hard. I just don't have laplace transforms, beam stress equations and RLC circuits at my fingertips. Maybe I should try harder. Might learn something. Good point. On the other hand, that's why I chose those fields. But I will try to look at those categories more often.

 

[mathboy]

I strongly recommend that morphism get some sort of recognition label. He has outstanding knowledge, problem solving ability, and helps people a lot.

 

[Dick]

I've seconded and proposed this point an endless (like three or so) number of times. Why can't Homework Helper be an elected post, like comedian of the year? Seems to me that would mean you get more input from the entities direct peers, instead of having to solicit recommendations.

 

[Shooting Star]

I've seconded and proposed this point an endless (like three or so) number of times. Why can't Homework Helper be an elected post, like comedian of the year? Seems to me that would mean you get more input from the entities direct peers, instead of having to solicit recommendations.

The OPs in the HW forums can hardly be called the peers of the Homework Helpers. It seems at a first glance like a good idea to let them elect, seeing as they are the people who are getting the help. The problem is that perhaps they may not be able to judge the competency of a helper, even if that person has solved a number of problems in not too good a way.

A fraction of the "evaluation" for a HH may come from votes, perhaps?

 

[Shooting Star]

Congrats to morphism.

How come no anouncement anywhere?

 

[mathboy]

morphism has made no mistakes in his solutions that I know of. He answers questions that are more advanced than most homework helpers have answered (often questions in third year and sometimes fourth year courses). He seems to know every defintion and remember and be able to prove every theorem. His solutions are quite advanced and spot-on too.

 

[Shooting Star]

morphism has made no mistakes in his solutions that I know of. He answers questions that are more advanced than most homework helpers have answered (often questions in third year and sometimes fourth year courses). He seems to know every defintion and remember and be able to prove every theorem. His solutions are quite advanced and spot-on too.

I was not talking about morphism. What gave you the idea, if, that is, you are alluding to my post? To be clear, I was discussing Dick's election idea.

Do you know that morphism is a HH now? That's why I congratulated him.

 

[Dick]

The OPs in the HW forums can hardly be called the peers of the Homework Helpers. It seems at a first glance like a good idea to let them elect, seeing as they are the people who are getting the help. The problem is that perhaps they may not be able to judge the competency of a helper, even if that person has solved a number of problems in not too good a way.

A fraction of the "evaluation" for a HH may come from votes, perhaps?

I was thinking more about HH's voting for future HH's, but thinking about it, that would be hard to do. An HH in one forum doesn't necessarily know the others forums that well. The existing system probably fine - though it seems to operate slowly sometimes. Congrats to morphism, finally.

 

[Evo]

The problem is that perhaps they may not be able to judge the competency of a helper, even if that person has solved a number of problems in not too good a way.

That is part of the issue. We do take input from members, HH's and SA's when we consider awarding a medal, so in a way that's a "vote".

 

[mathboy]

I was not talking about morphism. What gave you the idea, if, that is, you are alluding to my post? To be clear, I was discussing Dick's election idea.

Do you know that morphism is a HH now? That's why I congratulated him.

I was never thinking about your post when I was talking about morphism. I was just talking about morphism.

 

[Moonbear]

That is part of the issue. We do take input from members, HH's and SA's when we consider awarding a medal, so in a way that's a "vote".

Indeed, if people are sufficiently impressed by the help they receive to comment on it, such as in this forum, and we haven't yet noticed them, sometimes that attention is what it takes for us to give their posts a closer look and see if they are medal-material. Often they are, sometimes not, but nothing wrong with someone bringing another to our attention. And of course, the nominations from other HW Helpers in the HW Helper forum is our biggest guidance...they're the ones out on the front lines who know who is being more help than hindrance there.

 

[Shooting Star]

That is part of the issue. We do take input from members, HH's and SA's when we consider awarding a medal, so in a way that's a "vote".

Oh, no, no. I mistook Dick's usage of the word peer to mean an OP in the HW forum, and was a bit bewildered. Of course, the "votes" of HHs, SAs and the other higher powers matter.

(All this is actually clear form three posts of Dick's and mine, slightly higer up the page.)

I was never thinking about your post when I was talking about morphism. I was just talking about morphism.

Again, my mistake. A natural one perhaps, since your post followed mine. We are .