Bob and Alice at the Event Horizon again.

  • Context: Graduate 
  • Thread starter Thread starter anorlunda
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Event horizon Horizon
Click For Summary
SUMMARY

The discussion centers on the behavior of objects at the event horizon of a black hole, specifically through the thought experiment involving Bob and Alice. Bob, who free falls into the black hole, experiences no remarkable events until he crosses the event horizon, while Alice observes Bob getting redshifted and smeared. The conversation explores the implications of the Schwarzschild radius, where Bob's hand can be inside the event horizon while his eyes remain outside, leading to the conclusion that he can still see his hand until he crosses the horizon himself. Ultimately, the discussion concludes that all interior radii behave like event horizons, preventing light from escaping outward.

PREREQUISITES
  • Understanding of black hole physics and event horizons
  • Familiarity with the Schwarzschild radius concept
  • Knowledge of radial geodesics in general relativity
  • Basic principles of gravitational lensing
NEXT STEPS
  • Study the implications of the Schwarzschild radius in black hole dynamics
  • Learn about radial geodesics and their role in general relativity
  • Investigate gravitational lensing effects around massive objects
  • Explore the concept of time dilation near event horizons
USEFUL FOR

Astronomy enthusiasts, physicists, and students of general relativity who seek to deepen their understanding of black hole phenomena and the nature of event horizons.

anorlunda
Staff Emeritus
Science Advisor
Homework Helper
Insights Author
Messages
11,326
Reaction score
8,755
You may be weary of the repeated questions about event horizons. The concepts are slippery.

Imagine Bob and Alice. Bob free falls into the black hole. For simplicity, assume he falls along a radial geodesic with no tangential component. Alice remains outside to observe.

Alice observes Bob getting smeared over the surface and getting red shifted out of existence.

Bob observes nothing remarkable at all (as long as he remains far from the singularity). That's where I have trouble understanding.

Suppose Bob extends his arm pointing at the center of the black hole. At some point Bob's hand is inside the event horizon but his eyes are not. Won't his hand disappear?

Even inside it seems that his hand should remain disappeared. Suppose the Schwarzschild radius is R1, Bob's eye is at R2, and Bob's hand at R3. R3<R2<R1. The curvature of space at R1 is just enough to guarantee that no interior geodesics crosses the R1 boundary, but at any smaller radius R the curvature is even more.

Then light leaving Bob's hand at R3 finds no geodesic extending radially outward to Bob's eye at R2. Of course as Bob moves inward, his eye eventually arrives at R3 and could meet some photons emitted from his hand earlier, but the image of the hand would be totally smeared.

According to this logic, in the interior volume of the black hole, no light or information should be able to travel radially outward regardless of the starting point. In effect, all interior radii are event horizons.

Even looking backward toward the horizon, I think Bob should see the distortions caused by gravitational lensing. Light from stars at the periphery of Bob's vision should appear to shift closer to the radial center of his gaze.

So I reason that Bob sees nothing but a black smear looking radially inward, and nothing but a point source of light looking radially outward. How can it be that Bob observes nothing remarkable at all?
 
Physics news on Phys.org
anorlunda said:
Suppose Bob extends his arm pointing at the center of the black hole. At some point Bob's hand is inside the event horizon but his eyes are not. Won't his hand disappear?
Nope, because by the time light from his hand reaches his eyes his eyes also have passed the event horizon, so therefore he can always sees his hand.


anorlunda said:
Even inside it seems that his hand should remain disappeared. Suppose the Schwarzschild radius is R1, Bob's eye is at R2, and Bob's hand at R3. R3<R2<R1. The curvature of space at R1 is just enough to guarantee that no interior geodesics crosses the R1 boundary, but at any smaller radius R the curvature is even more.

Then light leaving Bob's hand at R3 finds no geodesic extending radially outward to Bob's eye at R2. Of course as Bob moves inward, his eye eventually arrives at R3 and could meet some photons emitted from his hand earlier, but the image of the hand would be totally smeared.
Why do you think the image would be smeared?

Now an interesting thought experiment would be:

Imagine a free falling (from infinity) extended object of length L falling through the event horizon. At what point, if at all, does the distance between the front and the back of L increase faster than c?
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 51 ·
2
Replies
51
Views
5K
  • · Replies 26 ·
Replies
26
Views
2K
  • · Replies 13 ·
Replies
13
Views
2K
  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
1K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
2K
  • · Replies 16 ·
Replies
16
Views
2K
  • · Replies 18 ·
Replies
18
Views
3K
  • · Replies 20 ·
Replies
20
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
877
  • · Replies 12 ·
Replies
12
Views
6K