News America poised for world domination? Bush and Kerry cousins?

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The discussion centers on the belief that the Bush family, linked to the secret society Skull and Bones, is part of a larger conspiracy aiming for global domination, similar to historical totalitarian regimes. Participants explore the influence of Freemasonry and other secret societies, suggesting they have orchestrated significant historical events and control political and economic systems. The conversation touches on various symbols and rituals associated with these groups, including the significance of numbers like 33 and 1776. There is speculation about the role of these societies in events like the Great Depression and the establishment of the Federal Reserve. Overall, the thread reflects a deep skepticism towards established narratives and a fascination with conspiracy theories surrounding power structures.
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America poised for world domination? Bush and Kerry cousins??

Today my friend directed my attention toward this 90MB documentary:

http://radio.indymedia.org/uploads/martial_law_p03_bb.wmv

It talks about how George W. Bush, his father and grandfather are proven initiates of a multi-generational lodge called Skull and Bones, and how it will end up just like when Hitler ruled Germany.

If anyone else has seen or chooses to watch the documentary, what do you think of it? Weird yes, but interesting, no?
 
Physics news on Phys.org
And I'm sorry if this should have been in the skepticism and debunking forum
 
Just PM one of the mentors and they'll move it for you. I think Taft was a member of Skull and Bones.
 
ok, I'm spilling the beans.

Freemasonry is based on the goal of ruling the world. There are many different kinds of secret societies (such as skull and bones) and they are all kind of like parts to the engine that is freemasonry. The Illumaniti are to be viewed as the controler of the engine, but I'm pretty sure they aren't fully. I'm thinkin that that is not the highest level. Their main objective was really only concerned with controling the USA, but I'm sure there is much more to it than that now. It was started in 1776 in Engelstatd Germany (pardon my spelling throughout this) with this main goal. I think the Illumaniti was a more full specialized society than it's predecessor which had the very general goal of running the world, and a different name (I can't remember what it was). When this change occurred in 1776, the other part of the "command" must've gone into some other wherabouts which have remained more secret than the illumaniti. Maybe the illuminati is kind of like a patsy and also used as a way to recruit and spread interest in their grand schemes, but I digress.

Once the masons started letting in scholars into their society (around the 1600's or something like that), their goals started to grow more and more grand. Basically this whole thing (freemasonry) started in the dark ages or even before (around the 1400's). The Davincci code speaks about some of the early societies like the knights templar who aparently have the holy grail (bull ****). But the knights templar were a real group, and they were the first to start the idea of international banking. During their fade out, the masons were fading in. This idea of secret societies caught on quite well over scores of years and became more and more refined, but was still really only there for men (no women allowed) of the mason trade, thus easy to keep secret. For example, suppose only carpenters started their own secret society (it's sort of like unionizing, but it's secret, so it's got that "extra special meaning" type vibe to it) and they called it "the carpenters", well then they just recognize each other by asking "are you a carpenter?" but also making some pre-arranged body movement or something, and others in your company who aren't "carpenters" would never know the wiser, even if their trade is pounding nails for a living. Things got a little shaky for the masons when the french caught on, and started a campaign to erradocate freemasonry, many of their head honchos were exposed and they lost a lot of their structure. It was then when they were down on their numbers and started letting other people in as long as they had money and high intelligence. This was during the 1500-1600's or something.

So they started getting more heads working together to make their organization more redundant. With all these different types of people, they started arranging more complex protocols for each other to follow if certain things happen (and of course ways to recognize each other). They started compartmentalizing and creating more ranks and more specialized positions. This way, they can't be cracked as easily, much like how a ship has many doors that seal rooms that fill with water to keep the ship from sinking. If one cell is exposed, then no big deal, it's just cut away. This also allows more security due to the fact that each mason knows and is responsable for less than before.

After their big changes, cells started gaining more and more footing in almost all european countries. Many masons held positions in politics and big business. All types of systems started originating, but they all were organized somehow. Think of the movie fight club... In theory, there is a highest rank, and a leader that is running this whole system, but is completely unknown and more powerful than Bush. There are some main organizations such as the French-Scottish system with 33 "degrees" or levels. And the blankity-blank system (I forgot the name of it) which has 9 degrees. Some high degree defecters (I don't know how they are able to defect without being murdered to protect secrecy... which somewhat makes me think this is just a big myth) are certain that the 33 degree one controls the EU. Some famous high degree masons (32 and 33) include: FDR, Harry S Truman, Benjamin Franklin... I can't remember any more right now, but I know Thomas jefferson was a mason (of what degree I don't know) and so was Washington, but Washington left masonry for the last 30 or so years of his life. Oh yeah, Lenin was a level 32, and Marx I dont' know what level. Although I'm not too sure about Hitler, haven't read it from any credible sources. BTW, I regard credible sources as mainy videotaped footage of ex-masons spilling the beans, and all the architecture built around the world. seeing is believing. I have read a little, but I don't fully trust the internet with this stuff too much unless I see a picture (from many different sources) of these figures dressed up in masonry gear (yes they have plenty of traditional jewlery, necklaces, you name it... loincloths). There are all sorts of illustrations, paintings, emblems, statues, buildings... you name it, with masonic symbols on them too.

One guy, who's grave is in Washington DC, named Albert Pike, was a very highly respected 33 degree mason. He came up with a plan to take over the world with three world wars... hmm. He was a luciferian, and is a good representative of what the top levels of masonry are all about. They believe that they will rule the world with symbology rather than language (sort of like propoganda), so they leave their mark everywhere they are established. One of the big things they like to do is put up obilisks everywhere (transplanted from egypt), there is even one in central park. They like the scorpion, and spiders, and they put those everywhere. Thier biggest symbol is this: http://religion-cults.com/Secret/Freemasonry/mason-emblem12.gif
the big G in the middle represents humanity's ability to reproduce (I don't know what word it stands for). That symbol is designed into the layout of washington DC. They like the pentogram, and they like eagles.
here's some handy dandy masonic clip art, for all those newly inniciated masons:
http://www.daylightmasons.org/seattle_masonic_lodge_clipart.html (a lot of varaitions of the main symbol of the square and compass)
they like the equilateral triangle too, it symbolizes brotherhood, equality, and... I forgot. hehe.:
http://www.kena.org/hirams/Images3/33RD.gif (notice the 33 on the top)
this has more of their stuff :
http://www.kena.org/hirams/Pictures/Masonic
There is a lot more to it...

Each major religion has a specific type of masonry (BTW, beleiving in God is a requisite), and all of them (the specific types of masonry tailored to each religion) are tailored to make the believer swear oaths to God that completely cross the line. All the oaths they take are designed to directly contradict their beliefs, albeit unknowingly when they are performing the inniciation ceremony into the next level up. The things they are asked to swear to include their own murder if they choose to defect, and denial of their own beliefs wether or not they defect (in a way that doesn't really seem against their beliefs on the surface of things, and without thought about what they are asked to swear). I don't know the exact words they must say, this is just what I understand. I also know that a whole lot of memorzation work must be done in order to pass up into a higher level, so a lot of it is just listen and recite.

Ok, so they make oaths to their god and their brothers (fellow masons), oh yeah, and they always burn three candles during this ceremony. One represents the sun (which lights the daytime), one the moon (which lights the night time), and one that represents the "enlightenment" of the grand master of their particular lodge. So In many masonic buildings all over the world, you will see a room with stained glass containing lots and more of the symbols above, with intricate detail everywhere, and there will probably be a small knee high platform and three candles on three of it's corners. The three candles, or three lights of any kind is another symbol of freemasonry.

Ok, now on to more fun stuff.
There are 33 sections in the emblem of the UN. count them:
http://www.un.org/english/
there are 33 feathers on one side of the eagle on the back of the dollar bill, and 32 on the other side (one side representing the French-Scottish system, and the other... I don't know, prolly some other system). There are 9 tail feathers which represent that other system that I forgot but mentioned earlier.
oh yeah, they also like the number 13, and I forgot what it means, but there are 13 levels in the pyramid on the dollar bill, and the eye on the top represents the illimaniti as it spreads it's "light" downward (aka shroud of confusion).

But anyway, there is a lot more to say, but I'm tired and I don't want to spend the time to find out what I'm forgetting...
one more thing... the illuminati loves that number 1776, and they put it everywhere, like on the bottom of the pyramid on the dollar bill (roman numerals) And in latin it's stated Anniut Coeptis (the year biggining) novus ordo seclorum (the order of the new world) which is confused by americans to be be inferred as the year marking the start of the USA... Well how could that mark the first year of the USA when the revolutionary war was still to be won, and the constitution or bill of rights wasn't even written yet? 1776 was the year the illumaniti was firmly established, it was the year that marked the beginning of their plan to control the USA. 1776 is also in roman numerals on book on the statue of liberty (which was a gift from masons in france to masons in the US), and even the new WTC is going to be 1776 feet tall...

So, it kinda makes a person wonder... When the stock market was booming in 1928, why did, all of the sudden, all of the major stock holders start massivly selling their stock one day, almost like they had agreed to do it that day, and in that way? Why did all those rich people (in a booming market) feel the need to start panic selling in the first place? Unless! they were masons, simply obeying their orders. Once they started selling, the stock prices started falling, and then many saw their stocks start to lose value, so they started selling, which further lowered the prices, and so on and so forth until the whole nation was panic selling and voiwalla! the great depression... then FDR (a 33 degree) switched us from the gold standard to a fiat system, and the rest is history... our money really doesn't have any value other than what the people give it because it truly doesn't represent anything, it's not a "share" of the US, it's just a promisary note. Economists define it as a promise, backed by a promise to repay a larger promise. Why didn't anybody listen to the message in the Wizzard of OZ? follow the yellow brick road, stay with gold!

eh, I'm going to go to bed now.
 
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How did I know you would show up here Johnny?
 
This is very interesting
 
Get all your conspiracy outline stuff here: http://www.conspiracyarchive.com/

Mind you, I don't trust it. I don't trust any site that will publish crap like this. (They even used a pre-Kaufman translation)
 
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Thier biggest symbol is this: http://religion-cults.com/Secret/Freemasonry/mason-emblem12.gif
the big G in the middle represents humanity's ability to reproduce (I don't know what word it stands for). That symbol is designed into the layout of washington DC.
Looks like a ruler and compass to me. What does that have to do with DC?

Ok, now on to more fun stuff.
There are 33 sections in the emblem of the UN. count them:
http://www.un.org/english/
The UN emblem has 26, 28, or 30 leaves, depending on what you count.
there are 33 feathers on one side of the eagle on the back of the dollar bill, and 32 on the other side (one side representing the French-Scottish system, and the other... I don't know, prolly some other system). There are 9 tail feathers which represent that other system that I forgot but mentioned
oh yeah, they also like the number 13, and I forgot what it means, but there are 13 levels in the pyramid on the dollar bill, and the eye on the top represents the illimaniti as it spreads it's "light" downward (aka shroud of confusion).
The real meaning of the US 1 dollar bill
The only thing left to question is the Pyramid. What's your reason for the Pyramid?
one more thing... the illuminati loves that number 1776, and they put (snip)
masons in the US), and even the new WTC is going to be 1776 feet tall...
1776 was also the year the continental congress ratified the Declaration of Independance. (july 4th, you know?)
So, it kinda makes a person wonder... When the stock market was booming in 1928, why did, all of the sudden, all of the major stock holders start massivly selling their stock one day,
(snip)
eh, I'm going to go to bed now.
It's simple economics, the market was being inflated artificially, it had to collapse sooner or later. It wasn't planned - it was inevitable.
 
For the record, Skull and Bones is practically a frat house, there's nothing 'secret' about it if you know how to use google.
 
  • #10
Jonny Trig - u are the man... much respect for your explanado...

Purely intuitive speculation... but do you know if George Sorros / Warren Buffet fit in the mix somehow?

America is not poised... it is the Illumati aka the "first terrorist organization"
 
  • #11
Smurf said:
It's simple economics, the market was being inflated artificially, it had to collapse sooner or later. It wasn't planned - it was inevitable.

What qualifies you to say this?

I can't believe that you lack the intuition to see how this scenerio is an obvious coordinated effort. Leaving outsiders holding the hot potato has always been the jack move... since I've known jack moves.

Why do you think it's so important to be aligned and belong to something in society today? This is nothing new. They know it's too late for people to make major moves so they don't care what kind of organizations we form. Someone has added all the world value and they have gone after all significant property within the reach of average people. .. anyway... too tired.. :zzz: u can think about it... what a disappointment :frown:
 
  • #12
Smurf said:
The real meaning of the US 1 dollar bill
The only thing left to question is the Pyramid. What's your reason for the Pyramid?

the comic sans serif font makes this page especially official! Actually looks like something GWB would do. :smile: This page was MADE for you... just like the public CIA website.
 
  • #13
Take out a one dollar bill, and look at it.

The one dollar bill you're looking at first came off the presses in 1957 in its present design.

This so-called paper money is in fact a cotton and linen blend, with red and blue minute silk fibers running through it. It is actually material. We've all washed it without it falling apart. A special blend of ink is used, the contents we will never know. It is overprinted with symbols and then it is starched to make it water resistant and pressed to give it that nice crisp look.

If you look on the front of the bill, you will see the United States Treasury Seal. On the top you will see the scales for a balanced budget. In the center you have a carpenter's square, a tool used for an even cut. Underneath is the Key to the United States Treasury. That's all pretty easy to figure out, but what is on the back of that dollar bill is something we should all know.

If you turn the bill over, you will see two circles. Both circles, together, comprise the Great Seal of the United States. The First Continental Congress requested that Benjamin Franklin and a group of men come up with a Seal. It took them four years to accomplish this task and another two years to get it approved.

If you look at the left-hand circle, you will see a Pyramid. Notice the face is lighted, and the western side is dark. This country was just beginning. We had not begun to explore the West or decided what we could do for Western Civilization. The Pyramid is uncapped, again signifying that we were not even close to being finished. Inside the capstone you have the all-seeing eye, an ancient symbol for divinity. It was Franklin's belief that one man couldn't do it alone, but a group of men, with the help of God, could do anything.

"IN GOD WE TRUST" is on this currency. The Latin above the pyramid, ANNUIT COEPTIS, means, "God has favored our undertaking." The Latin below the pyramid, NOVUS ORDO SECLORUM, means, "a new order has begun." At the base of the pyramid is the Roman Numeral for 1776.

If you look at the right-hand circle, and check it carefully, you will learn that it is on every National Cemetery in the United States. It is also on the Parade of Flags Walkway at the Bushnell, Florida National Cemetery, and is the centerpiece of most hero's monuments. Slightly modified, it is the seal of the President of the United States, and it is always visible whenever he speaks, yet very few people know what the symbols mean.

The Bald Eagle was selected as a symbol for victory for two reasons: First, he is not afraid of a storm; he is strong, and he is smart enough to soar above it. Secondly, he wears no material crown. We had just broken from the King of England. Also, notice the shield is unsupported. This country can now stand on its own. At the top of that shield you have a white bar signifying congress, a unifying factor. We were coming together as one nation. In the Eagle's beak you will read, "E PLURIBUS UNUM," meaning, "one nation from many people." Above the Eagle, you have thirteen stars, representing the thirteen original colonies, and any clouds of misunderstanding rolling away. Again, we were coming together as one. Notice what the Eagle holds in his talons. He holds an olive branch and arrows. This country wants peace, but we will never be afraid to fight to preserve peace. The Eagle always wants to face the olive branch, but in time of war, his gaze turns toward the arrows.

They say that the number 13 is an unlucky number. This is almost a worldwide belief. You will usually never see a room numbered 13, or any hotels or motels with a 13th floor.

But think about this:

13 original colonies,
13 signers of the Declaration of Independence,
13 stripes on our flag,
13 steps on the Pyramid,
13 letters in the Latin above,
13 letters in "E Pluribus Unum,"
13 stars above the Eagle,
13 bars on that shield,
13 leaves on the olive branch,
13 fruits, and if you look closely, 13 arrows.
And, for minorities: the 13th Amendment.
I ask people, "Why don't you know this?" Your children don't know this, and their history teachers don't know this. Too many veterans have given up too much to ever let the meaning fade. Many veterans remember coming home to an America that didn't care. Too many veterans never came home at all. Share this page with some of your e-mail friends, so they can learn what is on the back of the UNITED STATES ONE DOLLAR BILL, and what it stands for... Otherwise, they will probably never know.

--

Easier to read now?
 
  • #15
outsider said:
What qualifies you to say this?

I can't believe that you lack the intuition to see how this scenerio is an obvious coordinated effort. Leaving outsiders holding the hot potato has always been the jack move... since I've known jack moves.

There is a very good reason that everybody sold all those shares that one day: margin buying. It was a rampant process in the late 20s. The way it works is simple: you put up, say, 10% of the cost of your shares, and some firm puts up the remaining 90%. As long as the stock goes up, you make far more money than you otherwise would have, because you can buy far more shares. The problem is, when the share prices start to go down, you cannot afford to hold on wait for a recovery. If the price goes down only 10%, you've lost your entire investment. If you paid for the shares yourself, the share would need to go all the way to $0 for this to happen. Nobody worried about this in the late 20s because stock prices were consistently doing nothing but going up. They simply assumed it would continue forever. But guess what? As soon as a downward fluctuation of at least 10% takes place, the owners of shares bought recently on margin have no choice but to sell, or risk not being able to pay back the creditor who put up funds for them and going into default (which would likely mean they are never able to buy on margin again). Once these people begin selling, the fluctuation increases, until all marginal buyers are forced to sell. At that point, the downward turn is so acute that a panic occurs; everyone starts to sell, until suddenly nobody is willing to buy any new shares and the stocks are virtually worthless.

Think about the hypothesis you are putting forth, outsider. It's not like the crash was caused by a small group of people who owned thousands of shares each suddenly selling them all in a coordinated effort. The crash was caused by almost every single small investor out there selling all of their shares. A 'coordinated' effort to effect this kind of occurence would be a coordinated efforts of millions of people, most of whom have never even met each other. Exactly how is such a thing supposed to be carried out? The other thing to consider is that the few people who didn't lose everything that day, or the fewer still who actually profited, didn't really profit! They simply managed to make a few bucks or at least keep what they had. If the market had continued to rise the way it had been for years, they could have doubled their net worth in the span of another decade. What exactly is the motive for destroying a system that greatly increases the amount of the money you have each year simply to make a few bucks on a one-time gig that destroys the economy of the entire nation? When you've got a system like that set up, you don't intentionally destroy it.
 
  • #16
What exactly is the motive for destroying a system that greatly increases the amount of the money you have each year simply to make a few bucks on a one-time gig that destroys the economy of the entire nation? When you've got a system like that set up, you don't intentionally destroy it.

Let's suppose there are only 2 people in my country, me and my friend,, i have 10 bucks,, my friend has 5, i am twice whealty as my friend.. i take 4 of my friends dolars and burn them.. i have not won any money, but now i am 10 times whealtier that my friend
 
  • #17
Fine then. If you consider pure mean-spiritedness a good enough reason to sink your own economy and destroy the near certainty you had of continuuing to increase your own absolute wealth, not to mention ruin your 'friend,' I suppose I have nothing to say. You've now addressed one of many points I made.
 
  • #18
loseyourname said:
Fine then. If you consider pure mean-spiritedness a good enough reason to sink your own economy and destroy the near certainty you had of continuuing to increase your own absolute wealth, not to mention ruin your 'friend,' I suppose I have nothing to say. You've now addressed one of many points I made.

It's just about power, and there is no such thing as absolute wealth in terms of money, maybe a better way to increase your wealth is simply decreasing the wealth of everybody around you.

BTW: replace "Friend" with "Unknown people" it wasn't the point.

(I am not saying this was what actualy happened in the 30', i am just saying it isn't imposible)
 
  • #19
loseyourname said:
There is a very good reason that everybody sold all those shares that one day: margin buying. It was a rampant process in the late 20s. The way it works is simple: you put up, say, 10% of the cost of your shares, and some firm puts up the remaining 90%. As long as the stock goes up, you make far more money than you otherwise would have, because you can buy far more shares. The problem is, when the share prices start to go down, you cannot afford to hold on wait for a recovery. If the price goes down only 10%, you've lost your entire investment. If you paid for the shares yourself, the share would need to go all the way to $0 for this to happen. Nobody worried about this in the late 20s because stock prices were consistently doing nothing but going up. They simply assumed it would continue forever. But guess what? As soon as a downward fluctuation of at least 10% takes place, the owners of shares bought recently on margin have no choice but to sell, or risk not being able to pay back the creditor who put up funds for them and going into default (which would likely mean they are never able to buy on margin again). Once these people begin selling, the fluctuation increases, until all marginal buyers are forced to sell. At that point, the downward turn is so acute that a panic occurs; everyone starts to sell, until suddenly nobody is willing to buy any new shares and the stocks are virtually worthless.

Think about the hypothesis you are putting forth, outsider. It's not like the crash was caused by a small group of people who owned thousands of shares each suddenly selling them all in a coordinated effort. The crash was caused by almost every single small investor out there selling all of their shares. A 'coordinated' effort to effect this kind of occurence would be a coordinated efforts of millions of people, most of whom have never even met each other. Exactly how is such a thing supposed to be carried out? The other thing to consider is that the few people who didn't lose everything that day, or the fewer still who actually profited, didn't really profit! They simply managed to make a few bucks or at least keep what they had. If the market had continued to rise the way it had been for years, they could have doubled their net worth in the span of another decade. What exactly is the motive for destroying a system that greatly increases the amount of the money you have each year simply to make a few bucks on a one-time gig that destroys the economy of the entire nation? When you've got a system like that set up, you don't intentionally destroy it.

This provides more reason why it was easy to control the stock market crash. If banks and businesses marketed buying on the margin so that many more people would invest, then it would only provide more control for them. They wanted to put more money into the market anyway, so why not get other people to add to your money? They also needed more people to be directly affected so that panic would spread. What if they wanted to make some sweeping changes in the country in a fast amount of time? How could you do this without the people getting upset over the changes you want to make? You create a nationwide crisis that puts people in a state of panic and fear, then they can be controlled more easily. The society would've had many assets then anyway, many of them were gained in the inflation of stock prices but bost were already gained through the hundreds of years of swindling money through back scratching both here and in Europe (most of their assets are in Europe anyway), and they knew as long as everyone thought the market was booming, they could get away with selling almost all of their stocks and come out on top... at the expense of the people of course. This whole fiasco is also a ploy to broaden the gap between the upper and middle classes. Of course, it's all theory.
 
  • #20
Smurf said:
Looks like a ruler and compass to me. What does that have to do with DC?


The UN emblem has 26, 28, or 30 leaves, depending on what you count.

The real meaning of the US 1 dollar bill
The only thing left to question is the Pyramid. What's your reason for the Pyramid?
1776 was also the year the continental congress ratified the Declaration of Independance. (july 4th, you know?)

It's simple economics, the market was being inflated artificially, it had to collapse sooner or later. It wasn't planned - it was inevitable.

street layout of washington DC (designed by a masonic frenchman I think) http://www.freemasonrywatch.org/pics/wtau.gif

more on DC:
http://www.freemasonrywatch.org/washington.html
here is something I haven't seen before, the mall is layed out like the tree of life (i think that's what it's called)

look at the sections inside the circle in the UN emblem. there are eight slices of 4 sections each, and one section in the middle. on each side of the circle, htere are 13 leaves.

ya, and that doesn't mark the beginning of "the new world order" does it? what is a government without a bill of rights? what is a government without a constitution? I think the word order says it all, with only colonies and no bill of rights or constitution, there is really not much formal order. Anyway, I know it's kind of a weak argument, but alls I'm saying is that it COULD really stand for the beginning of the illumaniti's grand designs to create a new world order.

have you heard of the hindsight bias? looking back, it's easy to see that the market was inflated, but during those times, nobody knew where it would level off, or slow down, or what not, but surely not drastically collapse all in one day.

I know the stock market theory is kinda weak, but oh well. It's good conversation.
 
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  • #21
outsider said:
What qualifies you to say this?

I can't believe that you lack the intuition to see how this scenerio is an obvious coordinated effort. Leaving outsiders holding the hot potato has always been the jack move... since I've known jack moves.

Why do you think it's so important to be aligned and belong to something in society today? This is nothing new. They know it's too late for people to make major moves so they don't care what kind of organizations we form. Someone has added all the world value and they have gone after all significant property within the reach of average people. .. anyway... too tired.. :zzz: u can think about it... what a disappointment :frown:

[previous post] So, it kinda makes a person wonder... When the stock market was booming in 1928, why did, all of the sudden, all of the major stock holders start massivly selling their stock one day,
Outsider, the one missing something here is you: the stock market did not go belly-up in a day, it took years. Heck, it didn't even start on Tuesday, it started the previous Thursday.

You need to brush up on the history a bit. What you propose is simply impossible.
 
  • #22
Jonny_trigonometry said:
This provides more reason why it was easy to control the stock market crash. If banks and businesses marketed buying on the margin so that many more people would invest, then it would only provide more control for them. They wanted to put more money into the market anyway, so why not get other people to add to your money? They also needed more people to be directly affected so that panic would spread.
Not really. The more people invest, the more stability there is because it takes more/bigger purchases to have an impact on the market. Its a type of inertia. So having more people invest reduces the control large entities had over the market.
 
  • #23
loseyourname said:
There is a very good reason that everybody sold all those shares that one day: margin buying. It was a rampant process in the late 20s. The way it works is simple: you put up, say, 10% of the cost of your shares, and some firm puts up the remaining 90%. As long as the stock goes up, you make far more money than you otherwise would have, because you can buy far more shares. The problem is, when the share prices start to go down, you cannot afford to hold on wait for a recovery. If the price goes down only 10%, you've lost your entire investment. If you paid for the shares yourself, the share would need to go all the way to $0 for this to happen. Nobody worried about this in the late 20s because stock prices were consistently doing nothing but going up. They simply assumed it would continue forever. But guess what? As soon as a downward fluctuation of at least 10% takes place, the owners of shares bought recently on margin have no choice but to sell, or risk not being able to pay back the creditor who put up funds for them and going into default (which would likely mean they are never able to buy on margin again)...

ETC...

thanks for the Market Minute explanation... i realize that this is something worth pointing out to those who are unaware of how the market works and I appreciate the time it took you to type it all out...

But as all games there are the hard fast rules and then there are technicalities. Nowadays it's all about the "loopholes". These loopholes were designed for certain individuals with certain qualifications to fit through. I'm sorry to say but most of us are intended to be square pegs for these rules. He who makes the rules wins the game... hence politics and getting aligned with the right people... or secret societies... but I digress.

As far as I can tell you with my experience having been involved with a boiler room type shell company (after the tech melt down), the whole basis of the Stock Market is really the biggest jack move of all time(includes credit and promisary notes such as futures and options)...

There are people (actuary types) who monitor stock and know the INSIDER positions. These are Market Makers. The companies generally know when they can make a cashing in on which individuals and will create some type of bad news to justify a sell off that they were already intending to make. You best believe they are telling their insiders what to do and when to do it (better yet, they all have the same stock broker who has the right to execute the trades on their behalf). This is a part of what market making is all about. Controlling the flow.

Prior to recent years, I believe that fund managers were prepared to buy up a shares at a certain bottom-line price to prevent the fluctuations to be too severe... and for some companies :wink: this is still the case. However if you are an outsider, then you don't have these alliances in place, nor the deep pockets and the nerve.

Also, we know that in any market there are buyers and sellers with differing opinions as to what they should do...

As a young hustler, it was always buy low - sell high (using forward looking statements: aka a lie of sorts)... Where high is relative to the price you bought at.

Where did the idea of INSIDER TRADING come about? The whole idea of insider trading is based on a precalculated move. These bad ideas trickle down from the original pranksters... those who get burned will go burn others (cuz you are unlikely to burn your teacher)...

Since around the time of globalization, the honor among theives has gone out the window. Hence much of the state of the world today with all the internet fraud, identity theft and what not... It's Every Man / Woman for themselves... doesn't this sound like investor mentality in a down market?...

These ideas manifest in our relationships as women have taken it upon themselves for their own success... people are not as trusting (and rightly so)... We fill the country with immigrants and fill those immigrants with hopes and dreams and let them run straight into a new brick wall of reality... :frown:

it is harder to get along today for the bulk of the population, while some (who work to stay relevant) are still doing ok simply because we were blessed with a brain and the support systems to continue nurturing growth. They are just unaware that they are walking up a downward elevator watching others fall below them as they get old and they don't have the forsight to see that eventually everyone gets old and tired... the strenght of an economy (or company) has to do with the motivations of the people to remain active and work hard for the country.

We must remove ourselves from the beast... systematically separate from the system... but has all who are smart figured out that self preservation is more logical than the greater good?

Armchair filospher at work here... it would be interesting to see where this all goes... :devil:
 
  • #24
loseyourname said:
Think about the hypothesis you are putting forth, outsider. It's not like the crash was caused by a small group of people who owned thousands of shares each suddenly selling them all in a coordinated effort. The crash was caused by almost every single small investor out there selling all of their shares. A 'coordinated' effort to effect this kind of occurence would be a coordinated efforts of millions of people, most of whom have never even met each other. Exactly how is such a thing supposed to be carried out? The other thing to consider is that the few people who didn't lose everything that day, or the fewer still who actually profited, didn't really profit! They simply managed to make a few bucks or at least keep what they had. If the market had continued to rise the way it had been for years, they could have doubled their net worth in the span of another decade. What exactly is the motive for destroying a system that greatly increases the amount of the money you have each year simply to make a few bucks on a one-time gig that destroys the economy of the entire nation? When you've got a system like that set up, you don't intentionally destroy it.

I understand where you are coming from... why would you destroy such a beautiful machine?
1) to cover up and shift the blame to something outside of your control?
2) you destroy it so you can rebuild it... if you have revved the engine of to redline, you must shift gears so you can increase the capacity to rev it up once again...
3) shake out instability and regain control
4) place all your resources together and align powers to GAIN CONTROL
 
  • #25
russ_watters said:
Outsider, the one missing something here is you: the stock market did not go belly-up in a day, it took years. Heck, it didn't even start on Tuesday, it started the previous Thursday.

You need to brush up on the history a bit. What you propose is simply impossible.

Impossible is what they want us to think... Truth is often stranger than fiction... impossible, not really... if you put me in their seat, I would surely organize it this way... I am simply an outsider not able to get in, and so my thoughts are of spite and taste like sour grapes... why was I born to my circumstances? If I were of the right race, religion and family background (or even if I were living in the right neighbourhood) I would be an insider... and I would be stealing all your money, russ. And come over next door and ask you how much you lost... and tell you that your losses are insignificant compared to the millions that I lost (of which none of it was my money to begin with, but i would leave that part out).

No matter what you say about the minor details of Tuesday/ Thursday / Earthday... if it took a day / week / month / year... you cannot undo what I've lived through and bore witness to... i cannot say specifically about anything, nor would i ever comment on certain things that I've seen, nor would i admit to being in certain places or shook hands with certain people... do you see the similarities with a secret society? yet, i am just an outsider.
 
  • #26
Who brought the crazy magnet?
 
  • #27
Locrian said:
Who brought the crazy magnet?

hahaha... you're funny... i saw this comment coming :smile:

believe what you want... but don't write it off for other people... your comments are pointless and unecessary... you don't think i know how ridiculous this perspective really is to most people?... and yes, you are most people... so too bad... lol :smile:
 
  • #28
Lol!@#$!#$!@!@! :smile: :smile:
 
  • #29
Just a quote to backup outsider:


The Bankers who control the money at the top are able to approve or disapprove large loans to large and successful corporations to the extent that refusal of a loan will bring about a reduction in the price that that Corporation's stock sells for on the market. After depressing the price, the Bankers' agents buy large blocks of the stock, after which the sometimes multi-million dollar loan is approved, the stock rises, and is then sold for a profit. In this manner billions of dollars are made with which to buy more stock. This practice is so refined today that the Federal Reserve Board need only announce to the newspapers an increase or decrease in their "rediscount rate" to send stocks up and down as they wish. Using this method since 1913, the Bankers and their agents have purchased secret or open control of almost every large corporation in America. Using that control, they then force the corporations to borrow huge sums from their banks so that corporation earnings are siphoned off in the form of interest to the banks. This leaves little as actual "profits" which can be paid as dividends and explains why stock prices are often depressed, while the banks reap billions in interest from corporate loans. In effect, the bankers get almost all of the profits, while individual stockholders are left holding the bag.
 
  • #30
loseyourname said:
There is a very good reason that everybody sold all those shares that one day: margin buying. It was a rampant process in the late 20s. The way it works is simple: you put up, say, 10% of the cost of your shares, and some firm puts up the remaining 90%. As long as the stock goes up, you make far more money than you otherwise would have, because you can buy far more shares.
True but also remember the amount of margin allowed is based on your assets. If the value of your assets fall close to the level of the amount of money borrowed, if you do not put up extra collateral, there will be a margin call and your stock will be sold out from under your feet by the broker to cover the margin.
loseyourname said:
The problem is, when the share prices start to go down, you cannot afford to hold on wait for a recovery. If the price goes down only 10%, you've lost your entire investment. If you paid for the shares yourself, the share would need to go all the way to $0 for this to happen. Nobody worried about this in the late 20s because stock prices were consistently doing nothing but going up. They simply assumed it would continue forever. But guess what? As soon as a downward fluctuation of at least 10% takes place, the owners of shares bought recently on margin have no choice but to sell, or risk not being able to pay back the creditor who put up funds for them and going into default (which would likely mean they are never able to buy on margin again). Once these people begin selling, the fluctuation increases, until all marginal buyers are forced to sell. At that point, the downward turn is so acute that a panic occurs; everyone starts to sell, until suddenly nobody is willing to buy any new shares and the stocks are virtually worthless.
If confidence was so high then why did stocks fall to a level that resulted in so many margin calls it instigated a crash? It is certainly not impossible that the crash was instigated deliberately.

loseyourname said:
Think about the hypothesis you are putting forth, outsider. It's not like the crash was caused by a small group of people who owned thousands of shares each suddenly selling them all in a coordinated effort. The crash was caused by almost every single small investor out there selling all of their shares. A 'coordinated' effort to effect this kind of occurence would be a coordinated efforts of millions of people, most of whom have never even met each other. Exactly how is such a thing supposed to be carried out?
You do not need to own any shares much less thousands to instigate a crash. In fact if you are looking to make money it is essential that you do not own any shares. All you have to do is 'short' the stock in the realization that investors have already borrowed to their limit. In other words sell shares you do not own in the belief that you will be able to honour the contract by buying the shares at a future time at a lower price than your selling price. This does not require millions of people and has indeed been done by one man in relatively recent times when in 1992 Britain was forced to drop out of the ERM (the precursor to the euro) by a single currency trader George Soros who made $2 billion profit at the expense of the British gov't in just a couple of days. He achieved this by shorting the British currency and causing a panic This despite the British gov't spending billions trying to support their currency.
 
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  • #31
Locrian said:
Lol!@#$!#$!@!@! :smile: :smile:
indeed! :smile: :smile: :smile: protector of the secret?
 
  • #32
Burnsys said:
Just a quote to backup outsider:


The Bankers who control the money at the top are able to approve or disapprove large loans to large and successful corporations to the extent that refusal of a loan will bring about a reduction in the price that that Corporation's stock sells for on the market. After depressing the price, the Bankers' agents buy large blocks of the stock, after which the sometimes multi-million dollar loan is approved, the stock rises, and is then sold for a profit. In this manner billions of dollars are made with which to buy more stock. This practice is so refined today that the Federal Reserve Board need only announce to the newspapers an increase or decrease in their "rediscount rate" to send stocks up and down as they wish. Using this method since 1913, the Bankers and their agents have purchased secret or open control of almost every large corporation in America. Using that control, they then force the corporations to borrow huge sums from their banks so that corporation earnings are siphoned off in the form of interest to the banks. This leaves little as actual "profits" which can be paid as dividends and explains why stock prices are often depressed, while the banks reap billions in interest from corporate loans. In effect, the bankers get almost all of the profits, while individual stockholders are left holding the bag.

not to mention ENRON... chapter 11 protection baby! that's like the bulletproof vest... bad debt? write it off to the govt... tax payers will split the bill... got to love that :biggrin:
 
  • #33
"During the Great Depression, President Franklin D. Roosevelt revalued the dollar to 35 per troy ounce (112.53 cents per gram) of gold. This represented a drop in the value of the U.S. dollar. It fell to only 890 mg (13.7 grains) of gold. The U.S. dollar had thus been devalued almost 41% by government decree." - Wikipedia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_American_dollar

So, this can be used to gain more money of course. Suppose you have loads of money, then buy as much gold as you're worth, then the money's value decreases 41% (Including all the lower classes money) and then sell the gold back. That way, you haven't lost any value, while everyone who didn't do what you did did lose value. Of course, you'd have to know that FDR was going to devalue the dollar, but if you're a mason, and he's a mason, then there's the answer.

how fast did the initial change in momentum occur?
http://www.u-s-history.com/pages/h1527.html
pretty darn fast.

As far as changing from the gold standard, that was a shot in the dark on my part and I didn't really look anything up (i was tired), but now that I looked it up, the USA switched from gold backing to fiat in around the 70's if I researched correctly.
ok, well I'll agree that this whole idea about the GD is pretty far fetched, but that's not the point I'm trying to make. I'm trying to consider the possibility of freemasonry existing or not. In any investigation, if you only have small tidbits of info and no real hard evidance, all you need is a theory to unite all the tidbits. When investigating, all the info isn't givin to you as if you're reading a book, you have to put it all together, and there is a lot more tidbits to consider than all the ones covered in this thread.
 
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  • #34
Jonny_trigonometry said:
have you heard of the hindsight bias? looking back, it's easy to see that the market was inflated, but during those times, nobody knew where it would level off, or slow down, or what not, but surely not drastically collapse all in one day.
well YEAH! That's WHY. IT. HAPPENED. BECAUSE NO ONE PREDICTED IT WOULD! Otherwise they never would've gotten it to that level in the first place.
 
  • #35
Smurf said:
well YEAH! That's WHY. IT. HAPPENED. BECAUSE NO ONE PREDICTED IT WOULD! Otherwise they never would've gotten it to that level in the first place.

You're correct, but I think you're getting the hindsight bias and the ability to predict the future (clairyovance) confused. The hindsight bias is your bias of your ego being able to figure out problems that happened in the past. Everyone favors their ability to figure out problems that happened in the past.

If I gave you an anagram like "chamusat" and also said that the answer is "mustache", and I asked you how long you think it would take you to figure it out, you would probably give me an answer that would be less than the actual time that it wouldn've taken you.

Have you ever said "I could have thought of that! it's so simple!" ? that's the hindsight bias.

If I was able to organize a massive sell off by running a secret club with loyal followers (who possesses most of the money in the stock market), I'd rely on people's inability to predict the future. If you're a regular non-mason stock broker who can only react to this, and you see your stocks start to fall extremely fast, what would you do? would you assume that the past dictates the future and let them fall further, and have to explain to all your clients that you lost their money? or would you make the same assumption and cut your losses? or would you sit there like a bump on a log, and not make any assumptions? People do try to predict the future, that's what the market is all about, and although they aren't 100% correct, they are better than 50% correct, otherwise the market wouldn't increase at all.

You might be thinkin' that I think I've got everything figured out. Well, I thank you for your corrections that I've been misinterpreting (especially about the dollar bill, and the latin translations), hehe I even took 2 years of latin! I thought I had that one figured out, well I guess not. I assure you that I'm far from figuring this thing out. If it weren't for their pride (putting symbols everywhere) I would dismiss most of this conspiracy stuff, but it helps to expose them.

Oh yeah, when I first mentioned the hindsight bias, I was using it in referance to your explanation of how the market crashed. You said it was inflated (I agree), but the people of that time didn't know it was inflated. We are looking at a problem that happenend in the past and using our bias (based on our knowledge of what happened afterwards) to determine if the market was over-valued at that point in history.
 
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  • #36
Jonny_trigonometry said:
If I gave you an anagram like "chamusat" and also said that the answer is "mustache", and I asked you how long you think it would take you to figure it out, you would probably give me an answer that would be less than the actual time that it wouldn've taken you.
So basically you're saying that I think I'm better than I really am?
If I was able to organize a massive sell off by running a secret club with loyal followers (who possesses most of the money in the stock market), I'd rely on people's inability to predict the future. If you're a regular non-mason stock broker who can only react to this, and you see your stocks start to fall extremely fast, what would you do? would you assume that the past dictates the future and let them fall further, and have to explain to all your clients that you lost their money? or would you make the same assumption and cut your losses? or would you sit there like a bump on a log, and not make any assumptions? People do try to predict the future, that's what the market is all about, and although they aren't 100% correct, they are better than 50% correct, otherwise the market wouldn't increase at all.
... WHAT? That doesn't make any sense!

1. If you possesses most of the money in the stock market, any decrease will hurt you more than anyone else, because YOU OWN MOST OF IT!

2. Hindsight has nothing to do with the stock market crash! Once it started people panicked and started selling, that increased the rate of decline. It started because someone said to themselves "Hey! This can't keep going up forever, so I think I'll cut my profits and get out while it's safe" Eventually enough people sold enough stocks in 1 day that the stock market stopped rising. When it stopped rising some people got scared and started to sell. Then it started going down, so more people got really scared and they sold... See how that works? You don't need to have a degree in economics to figure it out, it's basic economics and history today. It wasn't caused by any conspiracy. It was inevitable.
 
  • #37
Jonny_trigonometry said:
If I gave you an anagram like "chamusat" and also said that the answer is "mustache", and I asked you how long you think it would take you to figure it out, you would probably give me an answer that would be less than the actual time that it wouldn've taken you.
I'd have said I'd never have worked it out as chamusat isn't an anagram of mustache. :smile:
SMURF said:
Hindsight has nothing to do with the stock market crash! Once it started people panicked and started selling, that increased the rate of decline. It started because someone said to themselves "Hey! This can't keep going up forever, so I think I'll cut my profits and get out while it's safe" Eventually enough people sold enough stocks in 1 day that the stock market stopped rising. When it stopped rising some people got scared and started to sell. Then it started going down, so more people got really scared and they sold... See how that works? You don't need to have a degree in economics to figure it out, it's basic economics and history today. It wasn't caused by any conspiracy. It was inevitable.
Equally questionable for the reasons I gave in my earlier post
 
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  • #38
Art said:
I'd have said I'd never have worked it out as chamusat isn't an anagram of mustache. :smile:
Nor would I, because I've never spelled it Mustache.
Equally questionable for the reasons I gave in my earlier post
Yet there is no evidence for it. There are detailed analysis' of the stock market crash in any University or Public Library, and until you present a thesis on which to base your theory that it was planned it's still just wishfull thinking.
 
  • #39
Smurf said:
Nor would I, because I've never spelled it Mustache.
Unless you are also logged on here as Johnny_Trigonometry then I never said you did. :confused:

SMURF said:
Yet there is no evidence for it. There are detailed analysis of the stock market crash in any University or Public Library, and until you present a thesis on which to base your theory that it was planned it's still just wishfull thinking.
I don't have a theory it was planned. I am simply saying it could have been done deliberately. By definition somebody or some organisation has to have started the selling to create the domino effect otherwise the crash would never have happened. It is their motives which are open to questioning but I don't see how it is possible to ever know what these motives were.
 
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  • #40
Art said:
I don't have a theory it was planned. I am simply saying it could have been done deliberately.
Okay. I agree with you.
 
  • #41
Locrian said:
Who brought the crazy magnet?
Seriously. Jeez, even I am at a loss to respond to that post.
 
  • #42
Jonny_trigonometry said:
ok, I'm spilling the beans.
*snip*
eh, I'm going to go to bed now.
Sorry that was too long to repost or even go through point by point.

The Illuminati was the Bavarian Illuminati and they originated from within the Masons. It was the Illuminati who decided that they as enlightened intellectuals would be best suited to govern. They also decided that the unenlightened and less intelligent would not understand or accept the right path for progress so they should remain secretive and hidden. So the Illuminati was created. They never reached outside of Bavaria. Most of their intrigues were simple blackmail and racketeering for the purpose of influencing the outcome of local politics, though their designs were to eventually gain more influence far and wide.
The year 1776 is as Smurf stated the year that the Declaration of Independance was signed, hence it's place on US currency, but it was also supposedly the year that the Jesuits disbanded the Bavarian Illuminati and Adam Weishaupt, it's leader, was exiled hence the 1776/Illuminati connection. Some really out there conspiracy theorists believe that old paintings of Weishaupt and Washington look strikingly similar and that Weishaupt may have found his way to the US and thieved Washington's indentity. Hence the US/Illuminati connection. This is really quite outlandish an idea to swallow though ofcourse.
The ideas that the Illuminati existed before the Bavarian Illuminati and still exists comes mainly from the fact that there have been multiple societies that have used the term "Illuminated" to name their society or describe themselves. They have been connected with a very early secret society called Roshiniya which translates to Illuminated Ones, the Hashishans, the Rosecrucians, and more based almost exclusively on etemology.
In short you may want to do some more research and be more critical of your sources.
 
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  • #43
russ_watters said:
Seriously. Jeez, even I am at a loss to respond to that post.

The lack of a response and the tendency to attempt to band together with an identity, who has said nothing but made an irrational judgment, displays the mental barriers of even intelligent individuals. Your inability to see the possibility is what you and others should question. You may have never lived in a major city or participated in the business world enough to see the landscape to grasp the concepts that I have described, but I"m sure you remember that Martha Stewart had to go to jail for INSIDER TRADING.
 
  • #44
Smurf, as you've noticed I'm not good at spelling. I'm not saying that you think you're smarter than you really are. I'm personally weary of the hindsight bias, because I don't want to look as if I've got everything figured out. So if you agree with Art, then you agree with me. I'm not saying this was the cause of the GD, I'm saying it's a possibility. But we shouldn't even be spending time worrying about it because we aren't economists. I admit that I don't know much at all about how the stock market works besides when people want to sell, the price goes down and when people try to buy the price goes up and some other basic things.
 
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  • #45
outsider said:
The lack of a response and the tendency to attempt to band together with an identity, who has said nothing but made an irrational judgment, displays the mental barriers of even intelligent individuals. Your inability to see the possibility is what you and others should question. You may have never lived in a major city or participated in the business world enough to see the landscape to grasp the concepts that I have described, but I"m sure you remember that Martha Stewart had to go to jail for INSIDER TRADING.

Outsider, insider trading is designed to get a person out a single company before its stock goes down so they can buy it up again cheap and make money when it rises once more. How would you apply this to the crash of 1929? It took what? Fifteen years for the market to recover and start making money again? If people couldn't pull out an reinvest in the market, where exactly do you think they invested their money? Nothing was profitable in the 30s and nothing in the 40s until the US went to war. But how could these people have known there would be a war? Do you now want to tell me that the same people who caused the crash caused WWII?

Is there any evidence whatsoever to suggest that any of this actually happened? A good place to start would be a list of however many people you think were involved who all sold enough shares to cause an adequate downturn, managed to pull out without losing anything, and managed to reinvest elsewhere in a manner that made more money than the market would have if it hadn't crashed, while they were still alive.
 
  • #46
Having worked for one of the world's largest online companies, i feel that the strategies we imposed on our employees (i was in management) were very much similar to those strategies being used by the govt and the military. We truly kept them in a shroud of confusion. While I was also instrumental in these office politics, I too have been a victim just the same and anyone can be put into this shroud. The corporation is very successful at assessing the maximum value of the employees, and the employees are dependent on the company so it is a lopsided relationship... blah blah blah... disenfrachised? Yes. But again, I have nothing to gain by telling my story.

All I know is that at some point in the last decade or so the world went through a lot of changes that are completely unexplained by those who are in charge (who should clearly have some sort of explanation). I don't want to sound crazy anymore :-p so here is my opinion on this topic:

YES, I believe that America is poised for world domination, but the American People (in general) will be used to acquire this success, but will not really share in the rewards (although this is what they will want you to think). The reward for the people is freedom, safety and security (things that monetary values cannot be placed, or better referred to as those things that money can't buy). But call me crazy, or call me a visionary, I believe the ultimate goal is social slavery and building the ultimate business machine.

I know I'm going to be all for monitors and tracking people because it is going to be marketed as for my protection, but ultimately it is for the protection of those in power.

In 1927, Fritz Lang released a film in Germany that left the audiences in such future shock, they left the theaters. This film was "Metropolis".
 
  • #47
I know what you mean about management outsider. I also agree with almost all the rest too. And it does take an intuitive leap, because you won't find proof, at least not any you can use.

I am also an outsider, with no desire to get inside. I have had a few opportunities, it just goes against my nature. I won't go into specifics, but I have seen and experienced enough to know that the people on the inside are not particularly nice.

Twenty years ago I was in the center of the micro computer revolution. I had such dreams for society because I realized that computers would probably double or triple our productivity. America was leading the way and with our ingenuity and ideals of personal freedom we could settle the world in peace and prosperity.

Now, 20 years later our production is 20 times what it was. 10 times what I predicted.

Where did the wealth from that productivity go?

The world is much worse off now than it was 20 years ago. I still hold onto the belief that computers, especially with the internet can still save mankind. With a computer and an internet connection we can communicate in ways that are unprecedented in the history of mankind. When someone claims something, we can instantly check the source, hear conflicting opinions and research our own conclusions. We can then share those conclusions with others. Information available to so many and so easily shared is going to revolutionize the human race!
 
  • #48
Lemmie get the facts right, I know some won't like the referances to the bible and religious beliefs, so just skip over those, but just bear with me.

origins of masonry from beginning:
Nimrod-the first mason, The Egyption mysteries- Isis & Osiris, King Soloman and Hiram the widow's son, The rites of Eleusis, the Dionesian artificers, Gnosticism,

midevil period:The Hashishim, The knigts Templar, the stone mason's guild, the brothers of the rosey cross.

early modern period: admission of "speculative masons" (not simply stone masons), the mother lodge (England 1717)-all other lodges are extended from this one, Illumaniti order (bavaria 1776)-sole prupose is to infiltrate masonry

Modern period (19th century): William Morgan and "anti-masonry"-published a book with all the secrets of masonry in it and then disappeared->who's widow went on to help found the mormon church as one of Joseph Smith's wives (his book and a confession by one of the guys that murdered him later caused a stir in the nation that almost drove masonry off the shores of USA, there was even an anti-mason political party); The Scottish rite and Albert Pike (1880)-> made masonry popular again; the 20th century-masonry's renaissance.

Scottish rite=32 degrees, the 33rd degree is onve level above both scottish and york systems called a "grand soverign inspector general degree"
the York rite=9 degrees
the G stands for generativity

J Edgar Hoover=33
at least 17 presidents have been masons.
Franklin, Paul Revere, Benedict Arnold, Jefferson (not sure), John Adams was a strong anti-mason, Washington denounced masonry on his deathbed because he felt it was a tool to bring the illumaniti into america, Jesse Helms-33, Bob Dole-33, Strom Thurmond-33, Ronald Reagan (honorary mason ie not a high level mason), Gerald Ford-33, Harry Truman-33, Franklin Roosevelt-33, **note, a 33 degree has taken communion out of a human skull, and sworn that they will work for the destruction of law, religion, and government. This is all part of the oaths that they make**

Washington:
13 blocks along the line of symmetry of the pentagram from the white house lies "the house of the temple"- the supreme headquarters of the scottish rite

New World Order:
the masons have been working to establish 2 things, 1. "the destruction of the true and living God from human minds" (I would assume at heart masons go by the bible even though they have lodges for all religions. They prolly mean that they want to replace the people's idea of "the true God" for each religion with their idea of Satan-which they call God.) , and 2. "the establishment of a one-world government and one-world religion."
-Francis Bacon, "The New Atlantis" -> basically a book written with the dream of starting "a new atlantis" in america where masonry and occultism could be practiced openly.

32 long feathers in the wings of the eagle (scottish rite). 32 total feathers (long and short) on the left wing, and 33 on the right. 9 feathers in the tail (York rite)
The unfinnished pyramid is called a "frustrum", capstone is "eye of Horus"
the first 5 levels symbolize all of the york and scottish rite (US masonry), the next 8 are all luciferian (European or "esoteric" masonry), and include as the last step before the capstone... yes that crazy devil himself, lucifer (referred to as the light of limitless nothingness).

Priori Sion: a rosecrecian type group that recently became known to the public in the last 20 years, it could've been completely made up by scholars that want to make a joke or riddle. Apparantly the main objective of this group is to destroy biblical christianity (thats this group's specific job in cooperation with the 1st goal of masonry, other groups are theoretically working to destroy other religions also *masons compartmentalize*) by "prodicing the bones of jesus".
Albert Pike was buried in the house of the temple in Washington DC (supposedly very honorable)-> he was a confederate general, cheif justice of the KKK-BTW this familiar group was started by Albert and another mason, sovereign grand commander of the scottish rite (highest ranking mason in america), supreme luciferian pontiff (the highest ranking satanist in the world), author of "Morals and Dogma". He did so much for masonry people say he "found it in a cabin and left it in a temple". He was a racist, and a war criminal, and the most honored man in masonic history.
After Pike, many more prominent occultists joined forces with masonry:
Arthur Edward Waite-33 -> wrote "the new encyclopedia of masonry" also a member of an occult society called the order of the golden dawn
C.W. Leadbetter-> archbishop of the liberal catholic church->a branch of the theosophical society->grandmother of all new ager movements, he was a pedafile.
Aleister Crowley->bragged about doing over 150 child sacrifices a year, luciferian, he said that he held so many masonic degrees, that an elephant would creak under the weight of all his jewelery (there are more than just 33 degrees, thast just the scottish and york rite systems->the US systems).
W. Wynn Wescott
Manley P. Hall->died in '92, respected as greatly as Pike, wrote hundreds of occult books including "the secret teachings of all ages and countries", was a rosecruician (brothers of the rosey cross)

so masonry is heavily involved with the occult to say the least.
Is masonry a religion?
it requires a belief in a deity, expresses that belief in ritual and prayer, teaches a system of philosophy and ethics, promises salvation "the celestial lodge above"
From "The Monitor" (the ritual masonic workbook) in the state of Tennessee in 1946 had this written in it: "Hindus have Vishnu and Krishna, The Jews have Moses, the Christians have Christ, and the Masons have Hiram"- referring to Hiram abiff, the savior of the masons. He's mentioned 2 or 3 times in the Bible, he's a craftsman and the son of a widow, he works to make the molten sea, and brazen pillars for king Soloman (I don't know, I'm not familiar with this, I'm just reporting almost all of this stuff from my main source, A defector named Bill Schnoebelen who wrote 7 books, "Satanic and voodo high preist","second degree menber of the church of satan", "a new age guru", and 4 more not mentioned in "The light behind freemasony", he's an occultist, channeler (huh?), Knight templar, member of the illumaniti, 90th degree mason (there are more degrees once you move beyond the US system into purely luciferian levels).
 
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  • #49
http://www.theforbiddenknowledge.com/hardtruth/uspresidentasmasons.htm

That site says it is giving just facts about our Presidents and their involvement in masonry...if the information is accurate then it is hard to believe that it is just a coincidence. I've read in other places though the information about the common ancestry of most of the presidents.

The Jesuits and some "Black Pope" seem to come up a lot in interviews with people playing the whole Mason/Illuminati/New World Order conspiracy angle.

You'd have to assume though there could never be any credible evidence as conspiracy theorists are always looked upon as crazy...the concept in itself though is not so hopelessly unbelievable if you think about it : a group of powerful people allign themselves to control things...
 
  • #50
Smurf said:
Take out a one dollar bill, and look at it.

But think about this:

13 original colonies,
13 signers of the Declaration of Independence,
13 stripes on our flag,
13 steps on the Pyramid,
13 letters in the Latin above,
13 letters in "E Pluribus Unum,"
13 stars above the Eagle,
13 bars on that shield,
13 leaves on the olive branch,
13 fruits, and if you look closely, 13 arrows.
And, for minorities: the 13th Amendment.
I ask people, "Why don't you know this?" Your children don't know this, and their history teachers don't know this. Too many veterans have given up too much to ever let the meaning fade. Many veterans remember coming home to an America that didn't care. Too many veterans never came home at all. Share this page with some of your e-mail friends, so they can learn what is on the back of the UNITED STATES ONE DOLLAR BILL, and what it stands for... Otherwise, they will probably never know.

--

Easier to read now?

Of course people know this. but they may not know this:
http://www.caterpillar.org.uk/warning/btn32.gif

13 represents all of the different levels of freemasonry->it's entire structure from the blue lodge (just the first 3 degrees->not many masons get beyond this), to the top trapazoid right under the eye of Horus which represents lucifer. In this picture, you will notice the scottish and york rites, the shrine, and the 33 degree all under "supreme council of soverign inspectors general"-this is the last level before "esoteric" masonry who's headquarters resides in Europe. So it's easy to make the jump to a more general meaning why 13 is mentioned a lot by masons (the people who designed the nation's seal->Franklin being one of them, who was a luciferian). their pride in their organization leads to putting their mark everywhere, perhaps that's why they chose to keep only 13 colonies for a while before the USA started expanding.

and here is the layout of the scottish (left) and york (right) rites, there are 3 steps (the blue lodge) up to the main stair case on either side, and there are 29 on the left (total of 32 including the blue lodge) and 9 on the right (including the ground of the blue lodge as the first step). The 33rd degree is above this whole structure, the shrine is under the archway:
http://www.shawneemasoniclodge54.com/Steps%20of%20Freemasonry.jpg
 
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