1 = 0 <- What goes fundamentally wrong? Delta distribution

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    Delta Distribution
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the mathematical implications and potential errors in the use of the delta distribution, particularly in the context of integrating over a circular region and the resulting equations. Participants explore the validity of equations involving the delta function and its implications in physics and mathematics.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents an equation involving the delta function and differentiates it, leading to a conclusion that appears contradictory.
  • Another participant questions the integration region and suggests that a constant of integration may have been overlooked.
  • Several participants argue that the first equation is incorrect due to dimensional inconsistencies, noting that the delta function has specific units that affect the validity of the equation.
  • One participant expresses surprise at the implications of integrating the delta function over a circular region, questioning how it does not yield the expected circumference.
  • Another participant clarifies that the integral of the delta function scales inversely with the derivative of its argument, which may affect the results of such integrals.
  • A later post introduces a reinterpretation of an equation involving the delta function in the context of phase space for a harmonic oscillator, raising questions about entropy and temperature.
  • One participant cites a source that suggests the delta function may not have a sensible definition in certain contexts, proposing this as a potential source of error.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express disagreement regarding the correctness of the initial equation and its implications. Multiple competing views are presented regarding the use and interpretation of the delta function, and the discussion remains unresolved.

Contextual Notes

Participants note limitations related to the integration region, dimensional analysis, and the definitions of the delta function, which may affect the validity of the claims made.

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1 = 0 <-- What goes fundamentally wrong? Delta distribution

[itex]2 \pi a = \iint \delta(a^2 - (x^2+y^2)) \mathrm d x \mathrm d y[/itex]

Differentiating both sides w.r.t. "a" (using chain rule on the RHS) gives

[itex]\frac{\pi}{a} = \iint \delta'(a^2 - (x^2+y^2)) \mathrm d x \mathrm d y[/itex]

Changing variables (and noting that integrand is independent of theta)

[itex]\frac{\pi}{a} =2 \pi \int \delta'(a^2 - r^2) \cdot r \cdot \mathrm d r[/itex]

Eliminate the pi on both sides, but more importantly we can rewrite the RHS as (using chain rule!)

[itex]\frac{1}{a} = - \int \frac{\partial}{\partial r} \delta(a^2 - r^2) \mathrm d r[/itex]

However the RHS is obviously zero, explicitly: [itex]0= \delta(a^2-r^2) \big|_{r=0}^{r=+\infty}[/itex].

DISCLAIMER: I know I use the delta as a physicist would, but please be flexible... I would really appreciate knowing where it essentially goes wrong.
 
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Hmmm ... have you forgotten about the constant of integration at all? I don't know which region you're integrating over in the first equation, so I can't verify it.
 


I think the very first equation is wrong. The delta function has units of 1/(units of argument). So delta(a^2 - x^2 - y^2) has units of [length]^-2. Thus the RHS of the first equation is unitless, whereas the LHS has units of length, so the equation can't be correct. I haven't worked it out, but I think if you are more careful you can evaluate the RHS of the first equation and it will be some pure number like 2*pi. Then of course differentiating that wrt a gives zero, as you found.
 


The_Duck said:
I think the very first equation is wrong. The delta function has units of 1/(units of argument). So delta(a^2 - x^2 - y^2) has units of [length]^-2. Thus the RHS of the first equation is unitless, whereas the LHS has units of length, so the equation can't be correct. I haven't worked it out, but I think if you are more careful you can evaluate the RHS of the first equation and it will be some pure number like 2*pi. Then of course differentiating that wrt a gives zero, as you found.

[itex]\iint \delta(a^2-(x^2+y^2) ) \mathrm d x \mathrm d y = \iint \delta(a^2 - r^2) \cdot r \cdot \mathrm d r \mathrm d \theta = \pi \int \delta(r^2 - a^2) \mathrm d (r^2) = \pi[/itex]

Err, you seem to be right... I'm totally flabbergasted. Integrating the delta-function on a circle over the plane does not give its circumference? How is that possible...
 


I think if you integrated the delta function delta(a - sqrt(x^2 + y^2)) you would indeed get the circumference. You have to recall that if f(x_0) = 0, the integral of delta(f(x)) scales inversely with f'(x_0). For example the integral of

delta(r - sqrt(x^2 + y^2))

is not the same as the integral of

delta(100*[r - sqrt(x^2 + y^2)])

even though both arguments have zeros on the same circle in the plane.
 


Of course, thank you :)
 


But... say we reinterpret the correct equation [itex]\pi = \int \delta(x^2+p^2-E) \mathrm d x \mathrm d p[/itex]. The RHS is by definition the (exponential of the) phase volume for a one-dimensional harmonic oscillator (2-dimensional phase space) with energy E.

So its entropy is independent of its energy? I.e. its temperature is infinite? Am I again overlooking something?
 


I'm not an expert on distributions. But one of my favorite books "Functional Analysis" by Lax says that [itex]\delta(x^2)[/itex] doesn't even have a sensible definition. Maybe that is what goes wrong?
 

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