# $1000 offer to the poor for sterilization 1. Sep 25, 2008 ### Ivan Seeking Staff Emeritus http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=5886592&page=1 2. Sep 25, 2008 ### Moonbear Staff Emeritus Ugh! Why not just fund birth control prescriptions instead of permanent sterilization? That's really all that's needed for those who don't want children, can't afford children, and can't afford birth control. Permanent sterilization DOES smack of eugenics, and also sends the message that nobody expects these people to ever get their lives together and get off welfare...at which time they might be able to afford kids and want them, but then are sterile. Or, here's another crazy idea...a social support network for the kids to get them into school and to stay in school so they graduate and can get at least a halfway decent job and break the welfare cycle. 3. Sep 25, 2008 ### tribdog I'll get a vasectomy for$1000. If you all want to start a fund, feel free

4. Sep 25, 2008

### turbo

Go ahead and get one. When Lindsey Lohan approaches you to fertilize her the "old fashioned" way so she and her DJ girlfriend can have babies, you'll have a lot of chances to "try" until she smartens up and sends you to be tested to see if you have motile sperm. By then you'll have your own paparazzi stalkers.

5. Sep 25, 2008

### Moonbear

Staff Emeritus

Though, it would be a great bargain for a menopausal woman on welfare to take the $1000 and get her tubes tied...not like she's using them anyway. 6. Sep 25, 2008 ### turbo Gay men would be getting a bonus, too, if they didn't plan on procreating. 7. Sep 25, 2008 ### Chi Meson Government sponsored birth control? Naw, that's liberal's misguided idea. Best to go in with a knife. That's god's way. :ironic smiley: 8. Sep 25, 2008 ### tribdog tested? is that a pun? Its funny if you think about it. 9. Sep 25, 2008 ### Astronuc Staff Emeritus It's easier said than done. My wife and daughter are helping a family friend who is a social worker. She's taken in twins (born when mom was 17 who barely finished 8th grade) and another child from two mothers who come from abusive (violent) families and have drug and alcohol abuse problems. Both mothers have been in treatment programs and have been given numerous supports. Both mothers are now pregnant again - despite restrictions on seeing boyfriends (e.g. no guys allowed to spend the night or visit their respective apartments). 10. Sep 25, 2008 ### binzing NOBODY on this forum gets to say that they want one! We need more smart people... 11. Sep 25, 2008 ### tribdog no body? come on. I can think of at least four. 12. Sep 25, 2008 ### binzing Who might those be? Though with your temperament perhaps it'd take you down a few notches...Ha ha. 13. Sep 25, 2008 ### NeoDevin I've already got a son, can I take advantage of the offer? 14. Sep 25, 2008 ### Math Jeans That's not fair. I'm not old enough yet :tongue:. 15. Sep 26, 2008 ### Borek ### Staff: Mentor It won't work. You have to be systematic with prescribed drugs, you have to remember to take them, you have to know how to take them. That's often a difficult task even for so called "educated" people. No idea how it looks in US but it would not surprise me if huge part of your students have no idea how these drugs should be used, at least that's nothing unusual here; needles to say those that ended their education earlier know even less. Edit: mental note, don't answer before reading thread to the end. Basically Astro aims at the same problem. 16. Sep 26, 2008 ### vanesch Staff Emeritus Yesterday I had my cat sterilized. Could I get, say,$500,- ?

17. Sep 26, 2008

### tribdog

better make that five.

18. Sep 26, 2008

### Moonbear

Staff Emeritus
Didn't your mom ever tell you that doing the right thing is never easy? Besides, there's a difference between a support group and GOOD support.

How is telling 17 or 18 year olds not to have boyfriends visit going to work? That's the idiocy of so many of these programs; they don't take reality into account. If someone is already having kids they can't afford, and already having to give them up, it's pretty unrealistic to think they're going to stop having sex. It's also pretty unrealistic to think they can afford or even get to regular doctor's visits for birth control prescriptions, or to afford the prescription itself.

You're assuming these people WANT babies they can't take care of...if the only obstacle is affording the birth control (which is not just the prescription, but the doctor visits that need to accompany it, and the transportation to the doctor), even if only half of them followed through, that would be that many fewer babies being raised on government funds.

There are also birth control options that do NOT require taking a daily pill...things like Depo Provera. Once a month injection. For women who have already had a baby and don't want any more, there are things like Mirena (it's labeled only for use in women who have given birth at least once...I've never found out exactly why, but I suspect it might have to do with uterine size). Fairly new to the US market (I don't know if it's been available abroad sooner, but it was in clinical trials back 15 years ago...might have just taken this long to get through the full pipeline) is the Nuva Ring. None of these require taking a pill every day, work from 1 month (Depo Provera and Nuva Ring) to 5 years (Mirena) and are all fully reversible, with no worse side effects than the pill (Mirena may have less, and Depo can be prescribed to those who have problems with blood clots when taking the estrogenic pills).

19. Sep 26, 2008

### Staff: Mentor

No, I am not assuming anything. All I am stating is that for some people birth control will not work, because it requires some level of sophistication and thinking, and these are things that they simply don't have.

Been maried for over 20 years, and we have been through many options, including intrauterine dvices, so I am pretty well informed. Still, they don't work forever. My wife works at school, she is not a teacher, she mostly deals with "difficult cases" - wide spectrum from ADHD to kids from social margin families. You will not believe in the level of irresponsibility some people show. That's the sad reality you have referred to in your post.

Disclaimer: I am not suggesting that \$1000 option is a good solution, it is just obvious for me what are limitations of other ideas.

20. Sep 26, 2008

### Art

Maybe pay them a lesser amount to have something like Implanon implanted which prevents pregnancy for 3 years leaving their options open for the future.

21. Sep 26, 2008

### Astronuc

Staff Emeritus
I agree with you, MB. A lot of the programs dealing with the poor and abused are rather poor. In most cases, government (or rather taxpayers) do not want to pay for good support. Social workers do not make good wages/salaries.

The younger mother was supposed to stay out of bars, but she went to one and got into an altercation, which lead to police involvement. She also under the drinking age, but that doesn't stop her from obtaining and drinking alcohol.

I also heard not long ago that a big problem with the welfare system are the boyfriends living with (or simply visiting) unmarried welfare moms, creating more kids who will most likely live on welfare and not do well in school, because their parents will do little or nothing to support the education of their children. And I see this everyday where I live - because we have various welfare agencies and a check cashing store in the neighborhood where I work.

22. Sep 26, 2008

### JasonRox

My entire family is full of welfare cases from birth until death. I'm lucky that I got one father that turned his life around. He was an alcoholic and all that. And my other uncle, he never seemed to have abused anything and seems like he left the family, and then the family left him (we're all in Ontario while he's in Quebec). So two good individuals out of like 10-12 (large family).

My mom comes from a very poor family. They got church funds to live, nevermind government funds. My mother now has a great job but is very materialistic for some reason.

My father lives within his means and since separation, everything just got better for him.

Anyways, our family is good. My cousin had no parental support at all. He came to our house every weekend for like 2 years. We were suppose to adopt him.

What's it like? Well, the entire family looks at us like we're "rich", when we are not. They label themselves as "poor" (which they are) but in a way that no one understands them.

Even if you offered help and everything, they will still distinctively label themselves as someone you don't understand and separate themselves from you.

It's very strange. It makes helping them impossible.

Note: I didn't go into detail about things. Just keeping it short.

23. Sep 26, 2008

### Math Jeans

24. Sep 26, 2008

### tribdog

He's poor at math and spelling, but a whiz at geography. go figure.

25. Sep 26, 2008

### TheStatutoryApe

I'm not sure about over in Ireland but people around here are sue happy. If you can find some poor people who will accept a pitence in exchange for a certain major life/medical decision I assure you there will be at least one who will bring a lawsuit for having been coaxed under duress. I believe the argument that offering a person who is poor money for making such decisions amounts to a decision made under duress has already been used successfully in cases where couples paid poor young women to be their surrogates.