13th century text hides words of Archimedes

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the discovery of Archimedes' works hidden beneath a 13th-century prayer text, focusing on the significance of this finding and the methods used to uncover it. Participants explore the implications of recovering ancient manuscripts, the relevance of the content, and the technology involved in the imaging process.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants express amazement at the technological advancements that allow for the recovery of lost texts, highlighting the significance of the discovery.
  • Others question the relevance of finding a manuscript that contains previously known information, suggesting that it only matters if lost knowledge is recovered.
  • There are claims that the discoveries may include concepts similar to calculus, although some participants express uncertainty about the details.
  • Participants mention the challenges of accessing the original article due to subscription requirements, which affects their ability to engage fully with the content.
  • Some participants share links to additional resources and articles related to the discovery, indicating ongoing interest in the topic.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the significance of the manuscript's content or its relevance to current knowledge. There are competing views regarding the importance of the discovery and the implications of the findings.

Contextual Notes

Some participants express uncertainty about specific details of the discoveries and the techniques used, indicating a reliance on external sources for information.

Evo
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"The pages of a medieval prayer text also contain words of ancient Greek engineer Archimedes. It takes high-tech imaging to read between the lines.

The sheepskin parchment originally contained a 10th century Greek text, which was erased by a 13th century scribe who replaced it with prayers. Seven hundred years later, a forger painted gilded pictures of the Evangelists on top of the faded words.

Underneath it all, however, is an exceptional treasure — the oldest surviving copy of works by the ancient Greek mathematician and engineer Archimedes of Syracuse, who lived in the 3rd century BC.

The unusual cast of detectives includes not only the imaging specialists who helped photograph the Dead Sea Scrolls, but also a Stanford University physicist who studies trace metals in spinach with a particle accelerator.

Together, they have been carrying out one of the most remarkable "salvage jobs" in the history of codicology, the study of ancient manuscripts."

It's really amazing what they are able to do now to find text that was once lost.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationw...1&coll=la-headlines-nation&ctrack=1&cset=true
 
Science news on Phys.org
I don't see the relevance of having an old manuscript of what is already known. Surely it would only matter if some knowledge had been lost, but we should be able to reason to it again if it isn't historical knowledge, and if it is I don't see that it is too important.
 
verty said:
I don't see the relevance of having an old manuscript of what is already known. Surely it would only matter if some knowledge had been lost, but we should be able to reason to it again if it isn't historical knowledge, and if it is I don't see that it is too important.
If you read the article you'd find out what they discovered, not to mention how they were able to do it.

And discovering ancient works that have never been read before always gives us a new understanding of what we thought we knew.
 
Unfortunately Evo I can't read the article because one has to be a subscriber. Did they not discover something not disimilar to calculus? I'm sure I read about this almost a year ago and it was about Archimedes so seems like a good correlation.
 
Kurdt said:
Unfortunately Evo I can't read the article because one has to be a subscriber.
Odd, I'm not a subscriber, but I can read the article, I just can't click on the pictures.

Did they not discover something not disimilar to calculus? I'm sure I read about this almost a year ago and it was about Archimedes so seems like a good correlation.
Yes, that's part of it. They are discovering more and more.
 
Oh well when I was searching for the story I came across a website they have.

http://www.archimedespalimpsest.org/index.html

I don't have time to look at it tonight but it seems to have a lot on it.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
More articles on the story which was initially reported in May of 2005 -

http://www2.slac.stanford.edu/tip/2005/may20/archimedes.htm - same article reported in ScienceDaily.

I first saw news about on a website concerning non-destructive testing - in this case with X-rays (radiography).

Archimedes Manuscript - The Palimpsest

AFAIK, one uses 'soft' X-rays. The technique can also be used to reveal paintings which have been overpainted because some artist ran out of canvas. And it can be used to detect fraudulent paintings and ancient manuscripts.
 
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