A Little Hypothetical For You to Answer

  • Thread starter Thread starter Avalon
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Hypothetical
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around a hypothetical scenario involving two identical clones, Clone A and Clone B, and the implications of Clone A's death on Clone B's identity and consciousness. Participants explore concepts of personal identity, consciousness, and the philosophical implications of cloning, with a focus on whether Clone A becomes Clone B upon Clone A's death.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants argue that Clone A does not become Clone B, asserting that they are distinct beings regardless of their identical composition.
  • Others propose that if both clones are identical in every way, then Clone A's death could imply a transition of identity to Clone B.
  • Several participants question the validity of the hypothetical, suggesting that the premise itself contains flaws, particularly regarding the implications of identity and consciousness.
  • One participant introduces the idea that consciousness might not be shared between the clones, even if they are identical, raising further questions about the nature of consciousness.
  • There are repeated calls for participants to share their reasoning rather than simply stating their answers, indicating a desire for deeper engagement with the philosophical implications of the scenario.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus; multiple competing views remain regarding the identity of Clone A and Clone B and the implications of Clone A's death. Some firmly believe they are distinct, while others entertain the possibility of identity transfer.

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty about the assumptions underlying the hypothetical, particularly regarding the nature of identity and consciousness in the context of identical beings. The discussion highlights the complexity of defining personal identity in scenarios involving cloning.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to those exploring philosophical questions about identity, consciousness, and the implications of cloning in theoretical contexts.

Avalon
Messages
19
Reaction score
0
Statement:
Only 2 conscious beings are alive in a universe. They are clones, exactly similar in every way down to the last atom, quantum fluctuation etc. Their names: Clone A and Clone B, to keep it logical they grow up in completely separate environments unbeknown to the fact the other one exists.

Clone A suddenly dies.

Clone A is not in existence, but Clone B is. Did Clone A become Clone B?

My Answer: Yes.

Your Answers:
 
Last edited:
Physics news on Phys.org
Why would clone A become clone B?
 
Avalon said:
Why indeed.

:confused: But you said that your answer would be "clone A became clone B." I'm asking you why you think this.
 
I have given you my answer, please share with me yours.
 
Avalon said:
I have given you my answer, please share with me yours.

Fine: No.
 
cristo said:
Fine: No.

Share your reasoning then I will share mine.:smile:
 
There's a few things that bug me about this statement:

If they're exactly the same (atoms, quantum fluctuations, etc.) then wouldn't they be the same person to begin with?

If they were exactly the same wouldn't they try to murder each other at the same time?

Is it murder if there are only two people in the universe.

My answer to the question: No. Clone A is always Clone A, as Clone B is always Clone B. The molecules represented by Clone A are not destroyed when he is killed and they are certainly not replaced by Clone B.

My opinion of this question: Why the hell did I waste 5 minutes of my life reading and answering it :rolleyes:
 
redargon said:
There's a few things that bug me about this statement:

If they're exactly the same (atoms, quantum fluctuations, etc.) then wouldn't they be the same person to begin with?

If they were exactly the same wouldn't they try to murder each other at the same time?

Is it murder if there are only two people in the universe.

My answer to the question: No. Clone A is always Clone A, as Clone B is always Clone B. The molecules represented by Clone A are not destroyed when he is killed and they are certainly not replaced by Clone B.

My opinion of this question: Why the hell did I waste 5 minutes of my life reading and answering it :rolleyes:

I have changed it to make it more sensible. They grow up in different environments and they are not one person, they are clones ie. 2 different conscious beings with the exact same material composition. This one doesn't have any murder either, I will keep it non-violent :smile:
 
  • #10
but then they'd grow to be different, if the environment were different in even the slightest, in which case, no.

if their environments were identical, on the other hand, and for the sake of argument *everything* about them is the exact same, then one would not die before the other. are they same person in that case? ... yes/no:

you could say yes, by some standards; but essentially no, because it is possible to put one in a different state than the other, simply by introducing some external factor to his identical environment and not doing the same to the world of the other guy.

but i think that's an essential flaw in the question itself.

one dying before the other implies a difference. if anything, you might say that at that point A and B turn into different people, actually-- for up till then hey were indistinguishable.
 
  • #11
moe darklight said:
but then they'd grow to be different, if the environment were different in even the slightest, in which case, no.

if their environments were identical, on the other hand, and for the sake of argument *everything* about them is the exact same, then one would not die before the other. are they same person in that case? ... yes/no:

you could say yes, by some standards; but essentially no, because it is possible to put one in a different state than the other, simply by introducing some external factor to his identical environment and not doing the same to the world of the other guy.

but i think that's an essential flaw in the question itself.

one dying before the other implies a difference. if anything, you might say that at that point A and B turn into different people, actually-- for up till then hey were indistinguishable.

They are identical, environments identical except some being pops into existence and shoots Clone A, then pops back out of existence. There, are you happy now? By the way, you need to stop arguing the question and actually provide an answer and reasoning as to if you think Clone A becomes Clone B or not. There is nothing wrong with the hypothetical, I am saying they are the exact same material composition, it doesn't matter if their environment's differ if the fundamental personal identity is based on genes, which seems to be the most logical explanation according to science.

Deny this logic and I will happily change my answer.

Btw, they are already different people: one of them is not existing as the other.

It makes perfectly logical sense that upon the death of Clone A, Clone B is the only experiencer therefore Clone A becomes Clone B.
 
Last edited:
  • #12
If they were in the same universe they would cease to be identical the moment after they are created. Just like cloned humans would (another words identical twins). Maybe a better posit is that they are in separate identical universes too? Anyway the answer is no in my opinion too.

If I have two identical casks of Amontillado and I put a body in one and then disintegrate it does a body appear in the other? :bugeye:
 
  • #13
I have two one dollar bills in my wallet. I go and buy a soda with one of them. Does the second one become the first? No. Heck, the first one doesn't even cease to exist, it's just changed state a little.

This is a silly hypothetical.
 
  • #14
Avalon said:
Statement:
Only 2 conscious beings are alive in a universe. They are clones, exactly similar in every way down to the last atom, quantum fluctuation etc.

I guess a much more interesting thing to ask in my opinion, is:
Will the clones share a common perception of consciousness if both clones are in existence?

I think it is hard to imagine how consciousness could be shared. But if it cannot be shared, why not? If consciousness is merely a perception of the brain, and both brains are perfectly identical then logically, it would follow that consciousness can be shared. Hmm...
 
  • #15
Closed pending moderation.

Zz.
 

Similar threads

Would 'you' be in control of a clone of yourself after you die?
  • · Replies 33 ·
2
Replies
33
Views
9K
Graduate Using quantum-secured communication for data transfering
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
High School How to shorten this speech about BH?
  • · Replies 28 ·
Replies
28
Views
4K
Is Identity More Than Consciousness or Awareness?
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
3K
What has happened before us ? what will happen after us ? and how many times
  • · Replies 19 ·
Replies
19
Views
7K
Is Humanity Ready to Play God in Gattaca's Genetic Engineering Debate?
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
5K
Graduate Do we need quantum mechanics to explain biological stuff?
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
4K
Undergrad Can a Social Platform Transform How We Learn Mathematics and Sciences?
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
Graduate Could the Laws of Physics Be Proportional to Entropy?
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
1K
Graduate In light of new evidence, what might be behind the Casimir Effect?
  • · Replies 46 ·
2
Replies
46
Views
6K