A question related to de Broglie wavelength and the Uncertainty Principle

Click For Summary
SUMMARY

The discussion centers on the relationship between the de Broglie wavelength of an electron and the Uncertainty Principle in quantum mechanics. It establishes that an electron with a definite momentum has an infinite position uncertainty, contradicting the notion of localization. The conversation highlights the necessity of Fourier transforms in understanding wave packets, emphasizing that only an infinite superposition of waves leads to localization. Furthermore, it critiques a statement from a high school physics textbook regarding position uncertainty being infinite, clarifying that this is not consistent with quantum mechanics principles.

PREREQUISITES
  • Understanding of de Broglie wavelength and its implications in quantum mechanics
  • Familiarity with the Uncertainty Principle and its mathematical formulation
  • Knowledge of Fourier transforms and their role in quantum mechanics
  • Basic concepts of wave functions and their normalization in quantum physics
NEXT STEPS
  • Study the mathematical foundations of Fourier transforms in quantum mechanics
  • Explore the implications of the Uncertainty Principle on wave functions
  • Investigate the concept of wave packets and their physical interpretations
  • Review advanced quantum mechanics texts that discuss the relationship between position and momentum
USEFUL FOR

Students and professionals in physics, particularly those studying quantum mechanics, as well as educators seeking to clarify complex concepts related to wave-particle duality and the Uncertainty Principle.

Rishabh Narula
Messages
61
Reaction score
5
"Now, if an electron has a definite momentum p,
(i.e.del p = 0), by the de Broglie relation, it
has a definite wavelength.A wave of definite
(single) wavelength extends all over space.
By Born’s probability interpretation this
means that the electron is not localised in
any finite region of space. That is, its
position uncertainty is infinite
(del x --> infinity ), which is consistent with
the uncertainty principle."
-high school physics book from India,NCERT
Physics 12th part 2.
Why does a wave of definite wavelength extend
all over the space?
Or why does it continue/goes on forever
just because it has one value for wavelength?
And why should then the opposite be true that
a wave packet consisting of different wavelengths
doesn't continue/goes on forever?

i.e I'm asking what does the opposite case
that is these lines mean-
"The wave packet description of
an electron. The wave packet corresponds to a
spread of wavelength around some central
wavelength (and hence by de Broglie relation,
a spread in momentum)."

Please explain simply if you can,my
understanding of this stuff is a beginner
level as of now.
 
Physics news on Phys.org
Try:

https://physics.mq.edu.au/~jcresser/Phys304/Handouts/QuantumPhysicsNotes.pdf

The short answer is that a wave-packet is only localised when you superimpose an infinite number of waves with wavelengths over a continuous spectrum. In some ways this is an amazing mathematical trick.

It doesn't become localised just because you add a few waves together of different wavelengths.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: QuantumQuest, vanhees71 and Rishabh Narula
PeroK said:
Try:

https://physics.mq.edu.au/~jcresser/Phys304/Handouts/QuantumPhysicsNotes.pdf

The short answer is that a wave-packet is only localised when you superimpose an infinite number of waves with wavelengths over a continuous spectrum. In some ways this is an amazing mathematical trick.

It doesn't become localised just because you add a few waves together of different wavelengths.
thanks,but i still don't really get it.Is there an internet video or pictures explaining this?could you link those too.will go through the pdf and reply further too thanks.
 
Rishabh Narula said:
thanks,but i still don't really get it.Is there an internet video or pictures explaining this?could you link those too.will go through the pdf and reply further too thanks.

This is serious undergraduate level physics. If you cannot follow an undergraduate level text, then there is no simpler explanation. You just have to accept that a mathematical process called a Fourier transform does the trick and move on.

Note that the diagrams on page 16 of the jpf couldn't be clearer on this point.
 
Last edited:
One should be highly suspicious if they have a physical quantity that is infinite. Limits to infinity are generally okay, but not actual undefined quantities like infinity.

Rishabh Narula said:
"That is, its position uncertainty is infinite (del x --> infinity ), which is consistent with the uncertainty principle." -high school physics book from India,NCERT Physics 12th part 2.

This statement from your book is not true. It can be seen to be not true at least two ways.

1) The Fourier transform of a delta function is an infinite wave. The integral of the probability of a single infinite wave is infinity so it is not normalizable, and thus it isn't a legitimate wave function in quantum mechanics.

2) Heisenberg's uncertainty principal deals with the standard deviations of position and momentum of a wave function: ##\Delta x \Delta p \ge \frac{\hbar}{2}##. From OP's textbook, we are given ##\Delta x = \infty ## and ##\Delta p = 0##. Depending on who you ask, if you multiply these two together you will either get zero or something undefined. Either way, it won't satisfy the inequality.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: bhobba and vanhees71
See if this helps...

"Heisenberg's uncertainty principle for conjugate pairs of observables follows directly from the fact that those observables are essentially the Fourier transforms of each other."
Mathpages
 
This is not true in general but for position and momentum only. Of course it's a very intuitive example. If you have the Fourier transformation of a narrow-peaked function in momentum space to the function in position space,
$$f(x)=\int_{\mathbb{R}} \mathrm{d} p \frac{1}{\sqrt{2 \pi}} \exp(\mathrm{i} p x) \tilde{f}(p),$$
you'll see that ##f## is a broad distribution. If on the other hand ##\tilde{f}(p)## is a broad distribution, ##f(x)## will be a narrow-peaked function.

Quantitatively the uncertainty relation for an arbitrary pair of observable ##A## and ##B##, represented by self-adjoint operators ##\hat{A}## and ##\hat{B}## reads
$$\Delta A \Delta B \geq \frac{1}{2} |\langle [\hat{A},\hat{B}] \rangle|.$$
Here ##\Delta A## and ##\Delta B## are the standard deviations of the quantities calculated with the state ##\hat{\rho}## the system under consideration is prepared in:
$$\langle \hat{X} \rangle:=\mathrm{Tr}(\hat{\rho} \hat{X}),$$
with the standard deviation defined as
$$\Delta A^2 = \langle \hat{A}^2 \rangle - \langle \hat{A} \rangle^2.$$
Then ##[\hat{A},\hat{B}]## is the commutator of the two operators.

For position and momentum you have
$$[\hat{x},\hat{p}]=\frac{1}{2} \mathrm{i} \hbar$$
and thus the uncertainty relation
$$\Delta x \Delta p \geq \frac{1}{2} \hbar.$$
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: QuantumQuest

Similar threads

  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
2K
  • · Replies 28 ·
Replies
28
Views
5K
  • · Replies 14 ·
Replies
14
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 28 ·
Replies
28
Views
8K
  • · Replies 17 ·
Replies
17
Views
4K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
2K