A quick question about multiplicity?

  • Context: Undergrad 
  • Thread starter Thread starter jeebs
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    multiplicity
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around calculating the multiplicity of a system with M slots and N particles, where each slot can hold at most one particle. Participants explore the combinatorial aspects of distributing particles across slots and seek a general expression for the multiplicity function P(N, M).

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Mathematical reasoning, Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant describes their attempts to calculate multiplicities for various values of M and N, presenting specific cases and results.
  • Another participant suggests that the results resemble Pascal's triangle, prompting further exploration of this connection.
  • Some participants discuss the binomial theorem and its relation to the coefficients found in Pascal's triangle, specifically in the context of choosing objects from a set.
  • There is a mention of the "choose" function, which counts the number of ways to select N objects from M slots, linking it to binary representations.
  • Participants express uncertainty about how Pascal's triangle applies to the original question and seek clarification on the relevance of x in the binomial expansion.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the application of Pascal's triangle to the problem. While some see a connection, others remain unclear about its relevance and how it directly answers the multiplicity question.

Contextual Notes

Participants express limitations in their understanding of how combinatorial principles apply to their specific problem, particularly regarding the definitions and implications of the binomial theorem and the "choose" function.

jeebs
Messages
314
Reaction score
5
This is probably a simple thing to do but it is driving me up the wall.

Say I had a box with M slots, and there are N particles inside this box, and each slot can hold, at most, 1 particle. (where N is less than or equal to M).
I am trying to calculate the multiplicity of this box system by counting the number of possibilities of distributing my N particles over these M slots.

I have tried to make a simple example, with M = 3. If I first take N=0, then there is only 1 configuration, ie. the multiplicity (lets say, P) is 1. I have drawn out little diagrams and determined that:
P(N=0) = 1
P(N=1) = 3
P(N=2) = 3
P(N=4) = 1
The total sum of these multiplicities P_t = 1+3+3+1 = 8 = 23.

I have done the same thing for M = 2:
P(N=0) = 1
P(N=1) = 2
P(N=2) = 1
Here P_t = 1+2+1 = 4 = 22.

and M = 4:
P(N=0) = 1
P(N=1) = 4
P(N=2) = 6
P(N=3) = 4
P(N=4) = 1
Here, P_t = 1+4+6+4+1 = 16 = 24.

From this I can see that P_t = 2M, and that if N=0 or N=M, then P=1.

However, I need a general expression, since I do not want to draw out these little diagrams for higher and higher M or N. In other words, how do I find out an expression for the multiplicity P=P(N,M)?
I cannot spot a pattern just from the examples I have done. Out of M slots, how many ways are there of arranging the N particles I happen to have inside the box (N</= M) ?

Thanks.
 
Last edited:
Physics news on Phys.org
hi jeebs! :wink:

let's write out your results in a table …

1 2 1

1 3 3 1

1 4 6 4 1



does that remind you of anything? :smile:
 
tiny-tim said:
hi jeebs! :wink:

let's write out your results in a table …

1 2 1

1 3 3 1

1 4 6 4 1



does that remind you of anything? :smile:

it is the same sequence as pascal's triangle, right?

I don't see the connection between that and what I want to do though...? I can't really remember what pascal's triangle was supposed to be about to be honest
 
jeebs said:
I can't really remember what pascal's triangle was supposed to be about to be honest

The binomial theorem …

the nth row in Pascal's triangle gives the coefficients of (1 + x)n :wink:
 
So, I have M slots and N particles to distribute amongst them.

M=2: 1,2,1 are the multiplicities as N increases from 0 to M. This is actually the 3rd (n=2) row in the triangle.
M=3: 1,3,3,1
M=4: 1,4,6,4,1. The nth row gives coefficients (1+x)^n.

What is x in my example? I'm sorry, I just don't get how this applies. It was a practice exam question I was attempting to do and I don't think it expected me to bring pascal's triangle into it? I haven't heard that thing mentioned in years.
 
Last edited:
hi jeebs! :smile:

i was hoping you'd remember that (1 + x)n = ∑i=0n nCi,

where nCi, = n!/i!(n-i)!, is the "choose" function, the number of ways of choosing i objects (unordered) from n.

Your original question was the number of ways of choosing N objects (unordered) from M (M slots, each of which can be either empty or full, and there have to be exactly n full … the same as having binary numbers of length M but with exactly N "1"s): MCN.

The reason why (1 + x)n works is that (1 + x)n = (1 + x)(1 + x)…(1 + x), and the coefficient of xi is obviously the number of ways of choosing x from exactly i of those brackets. :wink
:
 
tiny-tim said:
hi jeebs! :smile:

i was hoping you'd remember that (1 + x)n = ∑i=0n nCi,

where nCi, = n!/i!(n-i)!, is the "choose" function, the number of ways of choosing i objects (unordered) from n.

Your original question was the number of ways of choosing N objects (unordered) from M (M slots, each of which can be either empty or full, and there have to be exactly n full … the same as having binary numbers of length M but with exactly N "1"s): MCN.

The reason why (1 + x)n works is that (1 + x)n = (1 + x)(1 + x)…(1 + x), and the coefficient of xi is obviously the number of ways of choosing x from exactly i of those brackets. :wink
:

ahh that's helpful man, thanks a lot.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 29 ·
Replies
29
Views
6K
  • · Replies 13 ·
Replies
13
Views
3K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
3K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
3K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 14 ·
Replies
14
Views
2K
  • · Replies 19 ·
Replies
19
Views
4K