Absolutely convergent/Conditionally convergent/Divergent

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the use of the comparison test and limit comparison test for determining the convergence of series, particularly in the context of bounded functions like cosine and the behavior of alternating series. Participants explore the conditions under which these tests can be applied and the implications of absolute versus conditional convergence.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question whether the comparison test can be used given that cosine is a bounded function.
  • There is a discussion about the requirements for applying the comparison test, including the need to have an idea about the convergence or divergence of the series in question.
  • One participant notes that the sum in question is not absolutely convergent, referencing the divergence of the harmonic series.
  • Another participant expresses confusion about which series is being referred to when discussing convergence, indicating the importance of clarity in the terms being compared.
  • Some participants mention the Wikipedia definition of the comparison test, emphasizing that it applies to series with non-negative terms.
  • There is a suggestion that finding convergent series that are larger or smaller than the original series can be complicated and may require more effort than proving the convergence of the original series itself.
  • A participant attempts to clarify the theorem regarding the relationship between the original series and the comparison series, but another participant points out that certain conditions (like positivity) are necessary for the theorem to hold.
  • There is a distinction made between the comparison test and the limit comparison test, with some participants noting that the initial reference was to the comparison test rather than the limit comparison test.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the application of the comparison test or the limit comparison test. There are multiple competing views regarding the conditions necessary for these tests and the implications of absolute versus conditional convergence.

Contextual Notes

Some limitations include the dependence on definitions of convergence, the need for clarity in the series being discussed, and the unresolved nature of certain mathematical steps related to the application of the tests.

Neon32
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My question is can I use the comparison test? Since Cos is a bounded function?
 

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Neon32 said:
View attachment 115148

My question is can I use the comparison test? Since Cos is a bounded function?
To use the Comparison Test, you have to have some idea about whether your series converges or diverges. If you believe your series diverges, you have to show that its terms are larger than the corresponding terms of the series you're comparing to. If you believe your series converges, you have to show that its terms are smaller than those of the series you're comparing to.
 
If you are trying to check if the sum converges Keep in mind that this sum is not absolutely convergent, because
$$\sum_{n=1}^{\infty}\left |\frac{(-1)^n}{n} \right | = \sum_{n=1}^{\infty}\frac{1}{n}$$

and the harmonic series diverges

I think it would be easier to come up with another method

edit: I made a small reading mistake
 
Mark44 said:
To use the Comparison Test, you have to have some idea about whether your series converges or diverges. If you believe your series diverges, you have to show that its terms are larger than the corresponding terms of the series you're comparing to. If you believe your series converges, you have to show that its terms are smaller than those of the series you're comparing to.

I'm a bit confused. Which one do you mean with "Your series"? The new series bn or the orignial series because it matters in this case. If you mean the orignial series.. then how I would know if it converges or not?
 
MAGNIBORO said:
According to wikipedia the comparison test is for "infinite series with non-negative (real-valued) terms"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct_comparison_test

If you are trying to check if the sum converges Keep in mind that this sum is not absolutely convergent, because
$$\sum_{n=1}^{\infty}\left |\frac{(-1)^n}{n} \right | = \sum_{n=1}^{\infty}\frac{1}{n}$$

and the harmonic series diverges

This is a different way to solve it and I know. My question was about using the limit comparison test. I'm trying to solve it in different ways
 
You can find convergent series that are larger / smaller for all elements, but that is complicated, and proving the convergence of those is more effort than proving the convergence of your original series.
 
mfb said:
You can find convergent series that are larger / smaller for all elements, but that is complicated, and proving the convergence of those is more effort than proving the convergence of your original series.
Just to see if I understand it correctly. If an is the original series and bn is another series of my choice. If an<bn and bn is convergent then an is convergent as well
and if an>bn and bn is divergent then an is divergent? This is the theorem
 
Neon32 said:
If an<bn and bn is convergent then an is convergent as well
That is not sufficient.
b_n=0, a_n=-1
It would be sufficient if a_n>0 for all n, but that is not the case here.

Same problem with the opposite direction.
 
Neon32 said:
Which one do you mean with "Your series"?
The series you're working on-- the one in post #1.

Neon32 said:
My question was about using the limit comparison test.
You said comparison test, not limit comparison test, in post #1. My response was based on what you said.
 

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