Aftermath of polymerization of EtOH

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the chemical reactions involved in the polymerization of ethanol to form polyethylene, exploring the feasibility and practical considerations of conducting these reactions in a laboratory setting. Participants consider the implications of using different types of containers and the behavior of ethylene gas during the process.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant describes a sequence of reactions where ethanol is mixed with sulfuric acid to produce ethene, which is then polymerized with FeCl3 to yield polyethylene, questioning the aftermath of the reactions and the choice of container.
  • Another participant suggests that introducing a thin loop of copper wire into the reaction could catalyze the process at the metal surface, potentially allowing for the reuse of the wire by melting off the polymer.
  • A participant reiterates the boiling point of ethylene as -108°C, emphasizing the need for a closed system to prevent gas escape during the reactions.
  • There is a mention of a cautionary note regarding the suitability of the reaction as a demonstration due to safety concerns.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the practicality and safety of conducting the reactions in open versus closed systems, with some agreeing on the need for a closed system while others maintain a more exploratory stance on the reactions themselves.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the potential for polyethylene to adhere to glass containers, raising concerns about the reusability of such containers after the reactions. There is also uncertainty regarding the behavior of ethylene gas and its implications for the experimental setup.

Weissritter
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In a very similar way to my first post ever, a short series of reactions came to mind that could be seen as apparent magic. You could use it for gaining instantaneous fame in a party, convincing people into pay attention to chemistry in basic levels of education and in conjunction with a time machine you could use it for making people believe you are a real magician.
In a recipient of any kind, high-purity ethanol, which can be bought pretty much everywhere, is mixed with sulfuric acid. The ethanol becomes ethene. (Does it become some sort of equilibrium situation there?). Now, the ethene is polymerized with FeCl3 and polyethylene appears "magically". These two reactions are easy to understand for me. What bugs me is the aftermath. If done in any glass-lab recipient, I can only imagine polyethylene would stick to it, rendering it useless for using it anytime else. So should these reactions be done in something disponsable, like a plastic bottle, for ensuring minimal costs?
 
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You could think about putting a thin loop of copper wire into the glass beaker. what I believe may happen is that the reaction will be catalyzed at the metal surface due to higher surface energy relative to glass, and that the solidification of polyethylene will nucleate preferentially on the metal.

i think you can reuse the wire by melting off the polymer.

However I never tried this.
 
Weissritter said:
In a very similar way to my first post ever, a short series of reactions came to mind that could be seen as apparent magic. You could use it for gaining instantaneous fame in a party, convincing people into pay attention to chemistry in basic levels of education and in conjunction with a time machine you could use it for making people believe you are a real magician.
In a recipient of any kind, high-purity ethanol, which can be bought pretty much everywhere, is mixed with sulfuric acid. The ethanol becomes ethene. (Does it become some sort of equilibrium situation there?). Now, the ethene is polymerized with FeCl3 and polyethylene appears "magically". These two reactions are easy to understand for me. What bugs me is the aftermath. If done in any glass-lab recipient, I can only imagine polyethylene would stick to it, rendering it useless for using it anytime else. So should these reactions be done in something disponsable, like a plastic bottle, for ensuring minimal costs?

BP of ethylene is -108oC
 
chemisttree said:
BP of ethylene is -108oC
Chemisttree subtly tries to tell me ethylene is a gas which could escape from an open recipient, and whoever tries to do these reactions should do it in something closed, or in any lab system capable of sending the ethylene, in gas state, to a disponsable bottle for polymerization.
Am I right?
 
Yep. Not the kind of reaction you do as a demonstration.
 
But...but the reactions...magic...nevermind, thanks for clearing this doubt.
 

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