Al-Zarqawi caught, released By mistake

[scott1]

Al-Zarqawi was captured and released by Iraqi(not U.S.) troops.Maybe we shouldn't withdarw troops the Iraqi's can't even keep Insugent leader's in pirson without doing somthing stupid.

 

[Pengwuino]

Yah I saw this article, they say it happened a year ago.

 

[vanesch]

Al-Zarqawi was captured and released by Iraqi(not U.S.) troops.Maybe we shouldn't withdarw troops the Iraqi's can't even keep Insugent leader's in pirson without doing somthing stupid.

Maybe he showed them his US passport ?

 

[Mercator]

Al-Zarqawi was captured and released by Iraqi(not U.S.) troops.Maybe we shouldn't withdarw troops the Iraqi's can't even keep Insugent leader's in pirson without doing somthing stupid.

Al-Zarqawi is a myth.

 

[Pengwuino]

Maybe he showed them his US passport ?

probably bought one in mexico.

And the paper was made in china.

 

[scott1]

Al-Zarqawi is a myth.

Then why whould the Iraqi's make up a story that makes them look bad?:rofl:
If he was a myth they probally whould of said that they caught and then decide to just kill him and not have worry about his trail.
Where did you hear that he's a myth?

 

[Pengwuino]

Where did you hear that he's a myth?

From the people who brought you the 9/11 conspiracy and Fahrenheit 9/11.

 

[Mercator]

Then why whould the Iraqi's make up a story that makes them look bad?:rofl:
If he was a myth they probally whould of said that they caught and then decide to just kill him and not have worry about his trail.
Where did you hear that he's a myth?

Where did you hear that he's real? Zarqawi IS a conspiracy theory fabrication.

 

[Mercator]

Then why whould the Iraqi's make up a story that makes them look bad?:rofl:
If he was a myth they probally whould of said that they caught and then decide to just kill him and not have worry about his trail.
Where did you hear that he's a myth?

Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, the terrorist leader believed to be responsible for the abduction of Kenneth Bigley, is 'more myth than man', according to American military intelligence agents in Iraq.
No why would American military intelligence make up a story that makes them look bad?:rofl:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2004/10/04/wirq04.xml

You know, here outside the US we check various sources of news and make up our own mind. But if you choose the easy way to believe all the lies that the Bush administration continues to spout, please go ahead. I just thought there was a minor chance that you would be able to open your eyes and start thinking for yourself.

 

[Cyrus]

Mercator, you've been staring at the sun too long. Our eyes are just fine.

Where did you hear that he's real? Zarqawi IS a conspiracy theory fabrication.

Do you have any evidence to back up your statements? Or are you shooting from the hip, cowboy. ;-)

 

[Mercator]

Mercator, you've been staring at the sun too long. Our eyes are just fine.
Do you have any evidence to back up your statements? Or are you shooting from the hip, cowboy. ;-)

So you are saying that American military intelligenceis lying?
Not that I necessarily disagree with that :rofl: But if your eyes are so fine, why don't you read the post before you reply something besides the question?

 

[Cyrus]

Reread the article, it does not say that he is a myth. It says the extent to his actions may be over-estimated. He is very real, and very dangerous.
You have to assume they are not lying, until you have sufficent evidence or proof to justify the idea of them lying. It's how the system works.
and ill have you know that my eyes are terrible, I need stronger glasses AGAIN! I am blind as a bat these days

 

[Mercator]

Reread the article, it does not say that he is a myth. It says the extent to his actions may be over-estimated. He is very real, and very dangerous.
You have to assume they are not lying, until you have sufficent evidence or proof to justify the idea of them lying. It's how the system works.
and ill have you know that my eyes are terrible, I need stronger glasses AGAIN! I am blind as a bat these days

I repeat:
Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, the terrorist leader believed to be responsible for the abduction of Kenneth Bigley, is 'more myth than man',[/B] according to American military intelligence agents in Iraq.
I don't say that Zarqawi does not exist. His actions and his role however have been made into a myth. Kinda like Satan has been created by Christians to represent all evil. It does not mean there is no evil, but just like it is useless to try to find satan to eliminate evil, it's useless to try to find Zarqawi. Zarqawi is a convenient "symbol" for both sides. The truth is that there is no Zarqawi acting as the leader of the whole insurgency, but rather a buch of different groups, each with their own agenda. Focusing on "Zarqawi" is dangerous for the troops in Iraq, because it conceals the real situation (and American military, contrary to the media and believers like yourself, have long abandoned the Zarqawi myth.)
But hey, give my regards to Santa Claus when you meet him.

 

[Cyrus]

The truth is that there is no Zarqawi acting as the leader of the whole insurgency, but rather a buch of different groups, each with their own agenda. Focusing on "Zarqawi" is dangerous for the troops in Iraq, because it conceals the real situation (and American military, contrary to the media and believers like yourself, have long abandoned the Zarqawi myth.)

For future reference, don't say what's going on behind the scenes of any government or military without having specific official sources. You wouldent believe my opinions as hard fact, becuase I am not in the government, so why should I take yours to be? Have you talked with these insurgents? Do you know their end goals and hierarchical structure? So I guess the media, who get their sources from the Department of defense and the pentagon, they are all wrong. But only outside countries such as yourself get the "good" information from the US government on our policy. The US government must be keeping all the real issues hidden from their own media and only shared with other countries right? :uhh:

 

[Pengwuino]

Thanks for clearing that up. I forgot that you are both in the American military and the intellegence agency to know what information they have on him and what actions they are taking. For future reference, don't say what's going on behind the scenes of any government or military without having specific official sources. You wouldent believe my opinions as hard fact, becuase I am not in the government, so why should I take yours to be? Have you talked with these insurgents? Do you know their end goals and hierarchical structure?

Whoa, i don't think rational statements like that are allowed in politics & world affairs.

 

[Cyrus]

Sorry, I appologize. I was just being sarcastic. Ill change it. But my point is don't go off on the US media and Government without having hard PROOF to justify it...wait a minute, now I get your sarcasm...I feel stupid.

You know, here outside the US we check various sources of news and make up our own mind. But if you choose the easy way to believe all the lies that the Bush administration continues to spout, please go ahead. I just thought there was a minor chance that you would be able to open your eyes and start thinking for yourself.

We can think just fine for ourselves thank you. Keep your false propoganda to yourself next time, buddy. It makes you sound incredulous.

 

[Mk]

Maybe he showed them his US passport ?

We occasionally hear of the US of updating their passports to make them more secure and un-counterfeitable.

But the thing is Syria and Jordan don't update their passports, because they need people coming in, and they wan't terrorists going out, to terrorize Western countries. You can probably print out a Syrian passport out of your home printer.

 

[Cyrus]

I always wanted duel citizenship Mk! :-)

 

[Mercator]

Sorry, I appologize. I was just being sarcastic. Ill change it. But my point is don't go off on the US media and Government without having hard PROOF to justify it...wait a minute, now I get your sarcasm...I feel stupid.
We can think just fine for ourselves thank you. Keep your false propoganda to yourself next time, buddy. It makes you sound incredulous.

I have provided a link which you obviously refuse to consider. That's fine, but then don't argue. It is exactly the kind of nonsense you write that lowers the quality of this forum.
I make a statement, supported by a credible link and you dance around it in the hope to make me look stupid. I have to protest this and ask the mentors to stop this kind of behaviour. If I am to remain polite on this board, then the least I expect is for others to do the same.
Now if there is anyone willing to comment on the Zarqawi myth, I'm open for discussion, but please refrain from this kind of nonsensical remarks.

 

[Cyrus]

Im not trying to be rude, but sir, you are openly bashing my country and calling my countryment incompetent, meanwhile you provide no real reason as to why. What, one link from ONE newsite? Common, no one called your country and your leaders a bunch of lyers... I am sorry if I offended you, but I find your anti-us remarks highly insulting and without merit.

 

[Cyrus]

If you want some valid links then here, http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3483089.stm . That is a credible news source, non-us.

"Attacks are now a daily occurrence in Iraq. Whether or not Zarqawi is behind them all, he is seen by the US as the biggest obstacle to their hopes of progress in Iraq - their most dangerous enemy in the country."

It basically says, that he is not responsible for the small daily attacks. But he IS resposible for the major attacks and assinations that have been going on.

http://www.arcent.army.mil/media_releases/2004/october/oct25_03.asp

So I suppose those were imaginary myth terrorists they captured?

http://aimpoints.hq.af.mil/display.cfm?id=3305

http://www.saudinf.com/main/y9063.htm <- an arab source, saudi arabia even claming he's a real terrorist threat. Gov. of Saudi Arabia website.

I searched this "myth" on google. Not supprisingly, the only article that I could find find about this was 1 single aljazeeraha OPINION piece.

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/9FA18AFB-F2C9-4678-8E6A-3595D91B83A1.htm

Opinion is not fact, and his opinion is strictly his and does not reflect the rest of the worlds views on Zarqawi. I think its fair to say that he's been 'hyped' up by the media and given more credit than he's actually done. Thats fair to say. But like I said before, he is very real and a very dangerous man. If you think otherwise then you should read those links and search him on the web. Its not just the US government that's after him, that should tell you something about the serious nature of the man.

Here are more current links from your own source on zarqawi. I find that interesting that your own source would have more articles on his reality than his myth. That should tell you something.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/portal/main.jhtml;jsessionid=VC2DWXUTI5A0TQFIQMFCFF4AVCBQYIV0?&_DARGS=/core/lowerHeaderBarFrag.jhtml

Those are more articles from the same news source you provided.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2005/12/14/wirq114.xml

The guy who claims he is a myth is somewhat credible, he was a senior us weapons inspector in iraq, but you have to question his motives. Why is it that there was no follow up stories on his statements? No where could I find more articles on zarquwi as a 'myth' other than that of Ritter. It leaves much to be questioned on the validy of his comments. Notice that I showed you multiple sources that support my view, and could only provide one, namely Ritter's against my view. Therefore, how can one sensibly conclude that Ritter is right and everyone else is wrong, if I am to cross reference as you suggest?

If you can find more sources on this 'myth' that have official backing to it, I would be interested in reading them. I could only find sources based off of Ritters one opinon paper, but nothing based on other independent high government official sources. (US or foreign)

 

[vanesch]

It is my opinion that there has been so much deceit, propaganda, lies and half-facts around the Iraq affair, probably also mixed with real facts and data, that it is very hard to tell what to believe. So I guess I don't believe anything anymore (what doesn't mean that I believe the opposite). Al-Zarqawi, an agent of OBL ? An invention of the CIA, to justify the link between OBL and Saddam ? An invention of Saddam's former secret services, and the US intelligence falling for the trap ? Who cares, now, after all. It's all lies and deception anyhow.

 

[Polly]

IMO, to watch the political and economic development of America is like watching a mindless giant steadily shaving away his own muscles, first the arm, then the thigh...
It is mind-blowingly sickening, morbid and painful

 

[Mercator]

Im not trying to be rude, but sir, you are openly bashing my country and calling my countryment incompetent, meanwhile you provide no real reason as to why. What, one link from ONE newsite? Common, no one called your country and your leaders a bunch of lyers... I am sorry if I offended you, but I find your anti-us remarks highly insulting and without merit.

I have no anti-US remarks. Bush is not the US. And I am getting a bit sick of these selectively sensitive people who interprete every word they don't like as "anti- US". Enough.

What is wrong with your links is that they are mainstream news links. The media created the Zarqawi myth, so referring to them does not make much sense. I would not refer to Chinese newspapers if I wanted to prove that Hu Jintao is anti-religion.

I presume that you only read English, since all your links are English. The advantage of understanding several languages is obvious: it widens your scope. We Belgians speak a few languages and because of my personal situation I use five, a.o. Chinese. So allow me to refer to some interesting "alternative" views:

Professor Coolsaet: a prof. 'international relations" ate the University of Ghent:
http://www.irri-kiib.be/papers/IS-coolsaet-nov.04.htm

A French view:
http://www.oulala.net/Portail/article.php3?id_article=1878

An Iraqi view:
http://www.iraqresistance.net/article.php3?id_article=390

The Zarqawi myth was created to put a face on the enemy and to "prove" the link between Alqaeda and Iraq. But then some radical Iraqi groups started rallying behind this fiction and made it a self-fulfilling prophecy.

My bet is (and NOW, I'm speculating) that the US military will sooner or later denounce the Zarqawi myth because it does not serve the purpose anymore. It's dangerous for the US military to pretend as if dismantling of the Zarqawi organization will stop violence in Iraq. Not to sayt that it almost became comical that they found a new Zarqawi "right hand" or "luietenant" almost every day.

 

[russ_watters]

I don't say that Zarqawi does not exist. His actions and his role however have been made into a myth. Kinda like Satan has been created by Christians to represent all evil. It does not mean there is no evil, but just like it is useless to try to find satan to eliminate evil, it's useless to try to find Zarqawi. Zarqawi is a convenient "symbol" for both sides. The truth is that there is no Zarqawi acting as the leader of the whole insurgency, but rather a buch of different groups, each with their own agenda. Focusing on "Zarqawi" is dangerous for the troops in Iraq, because it conceals the real situation (and American military, contrary to the media and believers like yourself, have long abandoned the Zarqawi myth.)
But hey, give my regards to Santa Claus when you meet him.

That doesn't make a whole lot of sense - the first sentence seems to be contradicted by the rest. Please answer two simple yes or no questions:

-Is there a man named al Zarqawi?
-Does this man lead/carry-out attacks in Iraq?

The article you cited is quite explicit in saying that he's a real person, as opposed to, say, Santa Clause, who does not actually exist. Ironically, the problem here may be your language skills, which you seem quite proud of: the phrase "more myth than man" is a figure of speech that means his importance is exaggerated. But that does not mean that he does not exist or that he isn't a big, big problem.

Also:

The Zarqawi myth was created to put a face on the enemy and to "prove" the link between Alqaeda and Iraq. But then some radical Iraqi groups started rallying behind this fiction and made it a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Bush is not using him to provide "the" link between Al Qaeda and Iraq because he is not claiming Zarqawi was in Iraq prior to the war.

 

[russ_watters]

IMO, to watch the political and economic development of America is like watching a mindless giant steadily shaving away his own muscles, first the arm, then the thigh...
It is mind-blowingly sickening, morbid and painful

And no doubt, this rapid two century decline will continue on for several more centuries. :uhh:

 

[Cyrus]

IMO, to watch the political and economic development of America is like watching a mindless giant steadily shaving away his own muscles, first the arm, then the thigh...
It is mind-blowingly sickening, morbid and painful

Well, not totally. There was the boom of the early 90s with the personal computer and internet. Politically, we are still the strongest nation in the world, rivaled only by China and Russia. I don't think India is by any means a threat, as we have good relations. I think the main problem in America is outsourcing of jobs. In that sense, yes, we are cutting away vital organs of society.

 

[Mercator]

That doesn't make a whole lot of sense etc...

Good try, but I prefer to stay with the issue.
Why don't you prove to me with some undeniable links that Zarqawi exists?
The figure of Santa Claus is based on a real living figure, btw, that does not mean that "the" Santa Claus is real. Think you can draw the parrallel with Zarqawi yourself. Did you read the article in Dutch? Can you comment on an academic point of view?

 

[Cyrus]

I have no anti-US remarks. Bush is not the US. And I am getting a bit sick of these selectively sensitive people who interprete every word they don't like as "anti- US". Enough.

Read what I wrote, I never said your bush remarks were against the US, I said this remark, was very insulting to people of the US:

You know, here outside the US we check various sources of news and make up our own mind. But if you choose the easy way to believe all the lies that the Bush administration continues to spout, please go ahead. I just thought there was a minor chance that you would be able to open your eyes and start thinking for yourself.

But I digress, let's get back to the point. If you want to debate if he's as big a threat as people claim, or that he's a figure head, as you claim, SO WHAT!? Honestly, all this is doing is putting a face on evil. Does it really matter if he's more legend than real? Does that negate the fact that there are insurgents in iraq comencing attacks everyday? At this point, debating this topic is besides the point. It will serve no good, what has been done has been done. You can argue the past all you want, but that won't change the future. As for the US military, I think they are quite competent in what their doing. It is VERY difficult to keep peace when you have gorilla warfare going on. Most other countries have not been able to pull of security with gorilla warfar, so I take my hat off to them for doing such a good job. There have been problems along the way, sure, but none the less, they are there for a noble reason, to bring stability to the region. Of course, this means the terrorists will fight them because if the US wins, it will be a hard blow to them, and they can't afford to let the US win. This is why you're seeing such intense fighting.

P.S. The more I reflect on that article, the one I had about Ritter, the more I wish I had more on the guy. He was a senior un weapons inspector. So he's no fool, I wish I had some video of him talking to watch, or more articles on him. He could very well be right, but then again, like I said before, I still think its odd that there were no follow up stories or other government officials making simliar claims to his. Not even congressional hearings or investigations.

 

[scott1]

Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, the terrorist leader believed to be responsible for the abduction of Kenneth Bigley, is 'more myth than man', according to American military intelligence agents in Iraq.
No why would American military intelligence make up a story that makes them look bad?:rofl: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2004/10/04/wirq04.xml
You know, here outside the US we check various sources of news and make up our own mind. But if you choose the easy way to believe all the lies that the Bush administration continues to spout, please go ahead. I just thought there was a minor chance that you would be able to open your eyes and start thinking for yourself.

Because it was Iraqi's that caught him:rofl:Bush isn't lieing about al-Zarqwi if he needed make up someone to be the insugent leader he it whould Saddam.
You know here in the United states we do have bad sources but that doesn't mean we believe them.
The U.S. has never made someone up to support a war or anything like that.There is probally a link to Al-qaudea and the Iraqi insugents they both hate the U.S. and Al-quadea knows how to kill Americans.
This therd is getting off topic this about how the Iraqi troops were stupid enogh to let the Insurgent leader go after they caught him

 

[Cyrus]

Stupid? Be careful. You have to keep in context that these are highly untrained security forces, who probably caught him in a remote boarder area (but this is my speculation), where they don't have the proper infrastructure to indentify rapidly insurgents. Without any real credible witnesses, this story seems more of a tale, for the time being.

 

[russ_watters]

Good try, but I prefer to stay with the issue.

Huh? I was asking specific questions meant to clarify a seemingly self-contradictory post by you. How is that not staying with the issue? I'm asking you to be specific about what you think the issue is!

Why don't you prove to me with some undeniable links that Zarqawi exists?

So, does this mean you are claiming that there is no such person as al Zarqawi? You provided a link which says that he does exist (saving me the trouble), yet you seem to be saying that he doesn't. Are you arguing against your own sources?

The figure of Santa Claus is based on a real living figure, btw, that does not mean that "the" Santa Claus is real. Think you can draw the parrallel with Zarqawi yourself.

So again - that makes it seem like you are contradicting yourself.

Jeez, can you answer simple yes or no questions about your opinion? Why are you so afraid to state explicitly what you believe? If you have confidence that you are right, there should be no need for such evasiveness, Mercator.

 

[Cyrus]

Maybe he's John Kerrys brother Russ.

 

[Evo]

Good try, but I prefer to stay with the issue.
Why don't you prove to me with some undeniable links that Zarqawi exists?
The figure of Santa Claus is based on a real living figure, btw, that does not mean that "the" Santa Claus is real. Think you can draw the parrallel with Zarqawi yourself. Did you read the article in Dutch? Can you comment on an academic point of view?

You don't think Zargawi is real? Think again.

21 November, 2005
JORDAN
Family disowns and condemns terrorist Zarqawi

Members of his tribe reiterated their strong allegiance to Abdullah II. AsiaNews sources in Amman: “After attacks, enforced national unity and loyalty, to their country and to their king”.

Amman (AsiaNews) - Family members of Jordanian-born al-Qaeda chief in Iraq Abu Musab al-Zarqawi have renounced the terror leader, telling King Abdullah they were severing links with him "until doomsday". In half-page adverts in Jordan's three main newspapers, 57 members of the al-Khalayleh family - including a brother and cousin - also reiterated their strong allegiance to the king

http://www.asianews.it/view.php?l=en&art=4671

 

[Cyrus]

I don't know Evo, its not one of the 5 other languages he speeks, therefore its jaded western hypocrisy, because obviously if you don't speak 5 languages you can't truly understand the news...