Algebra Problem, solving by rearranging

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Homework Help Overview

The problem involves real numbers x and y, constrained by the equations x+y=1 and (x² + y²)(x³ + y³) = 12. The goal is to determine the value of x² + y².

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Assumption checking, Mathematical reasoning

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss the application of the sum of cubes formula and its implications for the given equations. There are attempts to manipulate the equations to isolate x² + y², with some participants questioning the validity of certain steps and the reasoning behind them.

Discussion Status

Multiple interpretations of the algebraic manipulations are being explored, with some participants expressing uncertainty about the correctness of their approaches. There is a recognition of the need for further clarification on specific algebraic transitions, and some guidance is offered regarding potential substitutions and methods to simplify the problem.

Contextual Notes

Participants note discrepancies between their results and those found in an answer key, indicating a potential misunderstanding or error in their calculations. The discussion reflects a collaborative effort to reconcile these differences while adhering to the constraints of the problem.

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Homework Statement


Let x and y be real numbers with x+y=1 and (x2 + y2)(x3 + y3) = 12. What is the value of x2 + y2 ?


Homework Equations


Sum of Cubes: (a3 + b3) = (a+b)(a2-ab+b2)


The Attempt at a Solution


I plugged in the sum of cubes to the equation that equals 12 to get:
(x2 + y2)(x+y)(x2-xy+y2) = 12
and since (x+y) = 1,
(x2 + y2)(x2-xy+y2) = 12
and therefore,
(x2 + y2)(x2-xy+y2) = (x2 + y2)(x3 + y3)
cancellation:
(x+y)(x2-xy+y2) = (x3 + y3) = 12

then I plugged (x3 + y3) for 12 to the original equation:
(x2 + y2)(x3 + y3) = (x3 + y3)
and that means that (x2 + y2) = 1, right?
 
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The answer key that I just found said that the answer is 3...
Where did I go wrong?
 
PotentialE said:

Homework Statement


Let x and y be real numbers with x+y=1 and (x2 + y2)(x3 + y3) = 12. What is the value of x2 + y2 ?


Homework Equations


Sum of Cubes: (a3 + b3) = (a+b)(a2-ab+b2)


The Attempt at a Solution


I plugged in the sum of cubes to the equation that equals 12 to get:
(x2 + y2)(x+y)(x2-xy+y2) = 12
and since (x+y) = 1,
(x2 + y2)(x2-xy+y2) = 12
and therefore,
(x2 + y2)(x2-xy+y2) = (x2 + y2)(x3 + y3)
cancellation:
(x+y)(x2-xy+y2) = (x3 + y3) = 12
How did you arrive at the above line ?
then I plugged (x3 + y3) for 12 to the original equation:
(x2 + y2)(x3 + y3) = (x3 + y3)
and that means that (x2 + y2) = 1, right?
 
SammyS said:
How did you arrive at the above line ?

A typo, my bad,
what I meant was:

and therefore,
(x2 + y2)(x+y)(x2-xy+y2) = (x2 + y2)(x3 + y3)
cancellations:
(x2 + y2)(x2-xy+y2) = (x2 + y2)(x3 + y3) = 12
(x2-xy+y2) = (x3 + y3)

I plugged in the sum of cubes to the equation that equals 12 to get:
(x2 + y2)(x+y)(x2-xy+y2) = 12
and since (x+y) = 1,
(x2 + y2)(x2-xy+y2) = 12
and therefore,
(x2 + y2)(x2-xy+y2) = (x2 + y2)(x3 + y3)
cancellation:
(x2-xy+y2) = (x3 + y3)

Now I realize that the last part is wrong, but where do I go from here?
 
How did you get from

(x2 + y2)(x2-xy+y2) = 12
to
(x2 + y2)(x+y)(x2-xy+y2) = (x2 + y2)(x3 + y3) ?

I'm not saying it's wrong, I just don't follow it.

Anyway, after several pages of algebra, I also arrived at x2+y2=1
Are you sure you're looking at the right answer?

[itex]x=1±\frac{1}{\sqrt{2}} , 1±\frac{\sqrt{5}i}{\sqrt{3}}[/itex]

edit: I plugged it into the original equation and it doesn't work, so I must have made a mistake somewhere. Odd that we both got the same answer..
 
Last edited:
PotentialE said:

Homework Statement


Let x and y be real numbers with x+y=1 and (x2 + y2)(x3 + y3) = 12. What is the value of x2 + y2 ?


Homework Equations


Sum of Cubes: (a3 + b3) = (a+b)(a2-ab+b2)


The Attempt at a Solution


I plugged in the sum of cubes to the equation that equals 12 to get:
(x2 + y2)(x+y)(x2-xy+y2) = 12
and since (x+y) = 1,
(x2 + y2)(x2-xy+y2) = 12
and therefore,
(x2 + y2)(x2-xy+y2) = (x2 + y2)(x3 + y3)
cancellation:
(x+y)(x2-xy+y2) = (x3 + y3) = 12

then I plugged (x3 + y3) for 12 to the original equation:
(x2 + y2)(x3 + y3) = (x3 + y3)
and that means that (x2 + y2) = 1, right?
Let
[tex]A = x^2 + y^2[/tex]

[tex](x^2 + y^2)(x^3 + y^3) = 12[/tex]
[tex]A(x+y) (x^2-x y+y^2)=12[/tex]
[tex]A(A-x y)=12[/tex]
[tex]x+y = 1 \rightarrow (x+y)^2 = 1 \rightarrow x^2+y^2+2xy = 1 \rightarrow xy = \frac{1-x^2-y^2}{2}=\frac{1-A}{2}[/tex]
[tex]A(A-\frac{1-A}{2})=12[/tex]
[tex]A(\frac{3}{2}A-\frac{1}{2})=12[/tex]
[tex]3A^2-A-24=0[/tex]
You get two answers, but one is negative. We know the answer must be positive. The answer is 3.
 
This is an olympiad type question, you need to play with it. Start with x = 1-y, then get formulas for (x^2 + y^2) and (x^3 + y^3). Look to make a substitution.
 
You get two answers, but one is negative. We know the answer must be positive. The answer is 3.

thanks for your help! that makes perfect sense
 

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