Amazing caterpillars and metamorphosis

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the observation and care of monarch caterpillars and their metamorphosis into butterflies. Participants share personal experiences, insights into the biological processes involved, and engage in clarifying misconceptions about the metamorphosis stages.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant describes the excitement of raising monarch caterpillars and notes their rapid growth and behavior.
  • Another participant challenges the simplification that caterpillars turn into a liquid state during metamorphosis, suggesting a more complex process involving the death of larval cells and the formation of adult structures from imaginal discs.
  • There is a discussion about the duration that butterflies remain in the chrysalis, with differing views on whether it is hours or days.
  • Concerns are raised about parasitic wasps affecting caterpillar populations, with participants sharing their experiences and speculating on regional differences in wasp presence.
  • A participant mentions the potential for "infections" in milkweed plants affecting monarch production and expresses a desire to research this further.
  • Humor is introduced with light-hearted comments about the caterpillars' eating habits and a mix-up regarding the thread title.
  • Participants express anticipation for photos of the emerging butterflies.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the details of the metamorphosis process, particularly regarding the duration of the chrysalis stage and the biological processes involved. Multiple competing views remain on these topics.

Contextual Notes

Some statements reflect simplifications or common misconceptions about the metamorphosis process, and there are unresolved questions regarding the impact of parasitic wasps on caterpillar populations.

Who May Find This Useful

Individuals interested in entomology, butterfly conservation, or those engaged in raising caterpillars may find this discussion insightful.

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My wife and I planted some milkweed seed last fall and were happy to see a nice crop grow this spring. To our delight we found two monarch caterpillars on a leaf and decided to put them in a bug box. Caring for and watching them work was surprisingly fun and fascinating! In one week they more than tripled in size! All day they eat and poop! Usually at the same time! The two caterpillars met a few times and their antenna's were flying around. I wonder what they were saying!?

We were excited when they attached to the top of the box ready to cocoon (technically chrysalis). I'm blown away by the metamorphosis process. Firstly, these caterpillars completely cocooned themselves in 24hrs and now bare no resemblance of a caterpillar. Secondly my wife tells me inside the cocoon they turn into a liquid* state before recreating themselves as a butterfly. I know this is grade school stuff but watching it day to day is really amazing.

Right now they are still in cocoon state. I will take a photo and then a photo when they emerge!
 
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Greg Bernhardt said:
they turn into a liquid state

That's not exactly what happens, sounds like a HS simplification :wink:
 
Greg Bernhardt said:
Right now they are still in cocoon state. I will take a photo and then a photo when they emerge!

Generally when they will emerge as butterflies, they will sit there for quite some days, till they grow big. If possible, fix a camera at them. Later, increase the speed of the video. It looks amazing when you see them growing up.

I observed one such cocoon on a leaf when I was very young. Now in Kolkata, who gets to see all these! :frown:
 
Wrichik Basu said:
they will sit there for quite some days

Most species I know will sit for a few hours at most.

edit: plus, they don't 'grow', they just pump up their wings and wait for them to dry.
 
Borek said:
Most species I know will sit for a few hours at most.
My mistake. Phone autocorrect is stupid at times.
 
Greg Bernhardt said:
found two monarch caterpillars on a leaf
I envy you --- parasitic wasps "get" all the eggs from the milkweed I've planted. :oldcry:
 
Bystander said:
I envy you --- parasitic wasps "get" all the eggs from the milkweed I've planted. :oldcry:
I'm located in the upper midwest, maybe we don't have them or as many? OR will they emerge as wasps!? :wideeyed:
 
Greg Bernhardt said:
OR will they emerge as wasps!?
No. Just kill(s) the eggs. Colorado, "Front Range." The Monarchs come by, lay eggs, and move on --- two or three days later, nothing.
 
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Little sister in New Mexico "raises" the critters --- I'll have to pass along that there have been successes in Wisconsin. Can't help but wonder if there aren't "infections" of the milkweed; the plants came from NBS Boulder, and have been "sterile" as far as Monarch production for as long as I've had them. Have to do some reading.
 
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Greg Bernhardt said:
inside the cocoon they turn into a liquid* state before recreating themselves as a butterfly.
Borek said:
That's not exactly what happens, sounds like a HS simplification :wink:
The "liquid state" occurs when many of the larval cells die (and go mushy).
The larval surface is then replaced with cells from imaginal disks that spread through the larval body a form the developing adult body inside the pupae. Other specific sets of cells create new muscle and replace many nervous system cells (but not all).

Borek said:
Most species I know will sit for a few hours at most.
edit: plus, they don't 'grow', they just pump up their wings and wait for them to dry.
After the adult form emerges, it then increases its body size beyond that of the containing pupae's cuticle. It does this by sucking in air to inflate itself before the soft cuticle hardens after its coming out of the pupae. In general, this is how insects grow in size after each molting.
With flying insects, the hardening is required for the wings to be strong enough for flight.
If they don't enlarge or if they get bent during this soft cuticle phase, they will remain that way after the cuticle hardens.
 
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[Guess I need to be more careful about wearing glasses... I initially thought the title read arming caterpillars...] :smile:
 
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Pics please! :biggrin:
Greg Bernhardt said:
All day they eat and poop!
Haha, poop! What? No one's laughing? Nyeh. You guys don't understand me. :oldtongue: :smile:
 
  • #13
I did it! One done, one left to emerge.

butterfly.png
 

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