Undergrad Ampere-Maxwell law seems to contradict causality?

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SUMMARY

The discussion centers on the Ampere-Maxwell law, specifically the equation $$\nabla \times \mathbf{B} = \mu_0\,\mathbf{J}+\frac{1}{c^2}\frac{\partial \mathbf{E}}{\partial t}$$ and its implications for causality. Participants argue that assuming a spark occurs so rapidly that the $$\partial \mathbf{E}/\partial t$$ term is negligible leads to incorrect conclusions about instantaneous magnetic fields. The consensus is that the assumption itself is flawed, as rapid events correspond to significant $$\partial/\partial t$$ terms, thereby upholding causality. Proof by contradiction is highlighted as a valid method to demonstrate the falsity of the initial assumption.

PREREQUISITES
  • Understanding of Maxwell's equations, particularly the Ampere-Maxwell law and Faraday's law of induction.
  • Familiarity with vector calculus, including Stokes' theorem.
  • Knowledge of electromagnetic theory, specifically the relationship between electric fields (E) and magnetic fields (B).
  • Basic grasp of the concept of causality in physics.
NEXT STEPS
  • Study the derivation and implications of Maxwell's equations in electromagnetic theory.
  • Learn about Stokes' theorem and its applications in physics.
  • Explore the concept of causality in the context of special relativity.
  • Investigate proof by contradiction as a logical method in mathematical physics.
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Physicists, electrical engineers, and students of electromagnetism seeking to deepen their understanding of Maxwell's equations and their implications for causality in physical systems.

Bob44
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Let us take the Ampere-Maxwell law

$$\nabla \times \mathbf{B} = \mu_0\,\mathbf{J}+\frac{1}{c^2}\frac{\partial \mathbf{E}}{\partial t}.\tag{1}$$

Assume we produce a spark that is so fast that the ##\partial \mathbf{E}/\partial t## term in eqn.##(1)## has not yet been produced by Faraday’s law of induction
$$\nabla \times \mathbf{E}=-\frac{\partial \mathbf{B}}{\partial t}\tag{2}$$
since the current density ##\mathbf{J}## has not yet had time to generate the magnetic field ##\mathbf{B}##.

By integrating eqn.##(1)## and using Stokes law we find

$$\oint \mathbf{B}\cdot d\mathbf{l}=\mu_0 I,\tag{3}$$
$$B=\frac{\mu_0 I}{2\pi r}.\tag{4}$$
This seems to imply that a tangential magnetic field with strength ##B## appears instantly around the spark at all distances ##r##.

Does this contradict causality?
 
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Bob44 said:
Assume we produce a spark that is so fast that the ∂E/∂t term in eqn.(1) has not yet been produced
That is an impossible assumption. The differential Maxwell’s equations hold at a point. So there is no delay

Bob44 said:
the current density J has not yet had time to generate the magnetic field B.
Similarly here.
 
But the tangential magnetic field produced by the spark due to Stokes law is still instantaneous at all distances. This seems to contradict causality regardless of the radiation that later travels from the spark at the speed of light.
 
Bob44 said:
But the tangential magnetic field produced by the spark due to Stokes law is still instantaneous at all distances.
No. It just means that your assumption is wrong.

Look, your assumption is basically that something happened which is so fast that ##\partial/\partial t## terms were zero. But that is patently a bad assumption. When things happen fast is precisely when ##\partial/\partial t## terms are largest.

Your conclusions based on this wrong assumption are simply wrong. In fact, proof by contradiction is a common way of proving that an assumption is false.
 
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