Analytic solution of this, Advice.

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around finding an analytic solution to a specific ordinary differential equation (ODE) of the form s^2G''+sG'-(1+s^2+s\text{coth}(s))G=-4s^2e^{-s}. Participants explore various approaches, including numerical solutions and asymptotic behaviors, while considering the implications of linear symmetries and potential connections to Lie Symmetries.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents the ODE and mentions having solved it numerically, noting the asymptotic behaviors of G(s) for small and large s.
  • Another participant proposes a substitution method to transform the original equation into a more manageable form, suggesting a specific choice for the parameter λ and the function γ.
  • There is a discussion about matching terms in the transformed equation to derive conditions on the function η, with attempts to find suitable forms for η that fit the equation.
  • One participant expresses gratitude for the insights shared but notes that a closed form solution does not seem to be found, indicating that the results are more asymptotic in nature.
  • Another participant identifies a Riccati equation that complicates finding an exact solution and expresses intent to search for solutions in literature.
  • One participant admits to not having a specific reference for their methods, indicating a more experimental approach to the problem.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the complexity of finding an exact solution and acknowledge the challenges posed by the Riccati equation. However, there is no consensus on a definitive solution or approach, and multiple competing views on the methods and results remain present.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the unresolved nature of the Riccati equation and the dependence on specific assumptions regarding the behavior of the functions involved, particularly for small and large values of s.

Clausius2
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I am looking for the analytic solution of this ODE (if it were one):

[tex]s^2G''+sG'-(1+s^2+s\text{coth}(s))G=-4s^2e^{-s}[/tex]

I have solved this equation numerically, it only gives one physically realizable configuration rejecting conveniently one of the homogenous solutions. I don't have those solutions BUT I have the asymptotic behavior of [tex]G(s)[/tex], which turns out to be [tex]G\sim As^{\sqrt{2}}[/tex] and [tex]G(s)\sim se^{-s}}[/tex] for small and large [tex]s[/tex] respectively, where A is a coefficient that I have worked out by means of a linear shooting.

When writting it on Maple in OdeAdvisor, it says to me that it is a Linear ODE (easy thing to know) and with Linear Symmetries. Does this last thing have something to do with Lie Symmetries?. May this ODE be solvable employing that theory, I don't have a clue.

Thanks.
 
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For small s we can start with the equation

[tex] u^{\prime \prime} +\lambda u^{\prime}<br /> +\lambda^{\prime}u=\gamma e^{\int \eta ds}[/tex]

and make the substitution

[tex] u = G(s) e^{\int \eta ds} [/tex]

This will give us the equation

[tex] G^{\prime \prime}(s) + (2 \eta + \lambda) G^{\prime}(s) <br /> + (\eta^{\prime} + \eta^2 + \lambda \eta + \lambda^{\prime}) G(s) = \gamma [/tex]which if we set

[tex] \lambda = \frac{1}{s} - 2 \eta[/tex]

and

[tex] \gamma = -4 e^{-s} [/tex]

gives us

[tex] G^{\prime \prime}(s) + \frac{G^{\prime}(s)}{s}<br /> + ( \frac{\eta}{s} - \eta^{\prime} - \eta^2 - \frac{1}{s^2}) G(s) = -4e^{-s}[/tex]

which we can see is similar to your equation once we divide it by [tex]s^2[/tex].

[tex] G^{\prime \prime}(s) + \frac{G^{\prime}(s)}{s}<br /> - ( \frac{1}{s^2} + 1 + \frac{\coth{(s)}}{s}) G(s) = -4e^{-s}[/tex]Now the next bit is to match the [tex]G(s)[/tex] term with your equation. So,

[tex] \frac{\eta}{s} - \eta^{\prime} - \eta^2 - \frac{1}{s^2} <br /> = -\frac{1}{s^2} -1 - \frac{\coth{(s)}}{s} [/tex]

Hence we need to choose an [tex]$\eta$[/tex] that fits. If we try substituting

[tex] \eta = \coth{(s)} \pm \frac{\sqrt{2}}{s}[/tex]

we get, with some fiddling,

[tex] \frac{2(1 - \sqrt{2})}{s} \coth{(s)} = <br /> \frac{2(1 - \sqrt{2})}{s^2} [/tex]

or

[tex] \frac{2(1 + \sqrt{2})}{s} \coth{(s)} = <br /> \frac{2(1 + \sqrt{2})}{s^2} [/tex]

So, for small s, where we can make the assumption that

[tex] \coth{(s)} \simeq \frac{1}{s}[/tex]

we therefore have a solution.
The only thing left is to solve the very first equation.
By inspection we can see that it can be integrated directly to yield

[tex] u^{\prime} + \lambda u = \int \gamma e^{\int \eta ds} ds[/tex]

which is straightforward to solve for u, and hence G.

For large, positive s we can use the same method, except in our choice of [tex]\eta[/tex]. If we choose

[tex]\eta = \coth{(s)} - 2[/tex]

and plug this into

[tex] \frac{\eta}{s} - \eta^{\prime} - \eta^2 - \frac{1}{s^2} <br /> = -\frac{1}{s^2} -1 - \frac{\coth{(s)}}{s} [/tex]

and rearrange, we get

[tex] (\frac{2}{s} + 4) \coth{(s)} = \frac{2}{s} + 4[/tex]

which as s tends to (positive) infinity, coth(s) tends to 1, and this becomes true.

You can then solve for u and G as above.
 
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will get back to this later...
 
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Mathew! THANKS A LOT MAN!. Keep on posting, I will keep track of every line. At first sight it seems you don't find a closed form though...it's an asymptotic behavior isn't it?.
 
Hey man. I re-did all the steps, and it pretty much works. The only problem is that finding an exact solution of:

[tex]\eta^2+\eta'-\eta/s=1+coth(s)/s[/tex]

seems a pretty difficult task. It's a Riccatti equation. It would be nice to have it for closing the problem. I will mess around with some books to look for a solution (Maple doesn't say anything as always), and also I am going to see how good is your asymptotic approximation compared with the one (coming from Frobenius at s=0 and approximating [tex]scoth(s)\sim s[/tex] for large s) that I had before. Where did you find this stuff?. I mean, you have the book where this stuff can be found?.

Thanks.
 
Sorry, no book - I've just been fiddling around with it, seeing what comes up.

Yeah - for the general case I can't find a solution (one that doesn't involve an approximation), but I'll keep looking.
 

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