Analyzing Ancient Civilized Countries

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the historical and contemporary status of ancient civilizations such as Egypt, China, India, Babylon, and Greece, particularly in relation to their past achievements in science and technology compared to modern Western countries. Participants explore the reasons for the perceived decline in power and influence of these civilizations and speculate on their potential resurgence.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Historical

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants suggest that ancient civilizations were centers of intelligence and innovation, citing achievements like pyramids, mummies, and mathematical advancements.
  • Others argue that the current economic and political power dynamics favor wealthier nations, which attract the best scientific minds, thus perpetuating their dominance.
  • A few participants speculate on the possibility of a future where poorer nations may achieve a standard of living similar to richer nations, potentially through changes in societal values regarding economics and cooperation.
  • There are challenges to the assumption that historical intelligence correlates with current capabilities, with some arguing that intelligence is not the sole factor in a nation's accomplishments.
  • One participant raises the idea that industrialized society may not be the most evolved way to live, questioning the sustainability of current economic systems and advocating for a return to more harmonious living as seen in ancient societies.
  • Another participant notes the complexity of the topic, suggesting that answers may lie more in social sciences than in the philosophy of science and mathematics.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of views, with no clear consensus on the reasons for the decline of ancient civilizations or their potential resurgence. Multiple competing perspectives on intelligence, economics, and societal evolution are present, indicating an unresolved discussion.

Contextual Notes

The discussion includes various assumptions about intelligence, economic systems, and historical context that remain unexamined. Participants also express differing views on the implications of industrialization and the nature of societal progress.

  • #31
imo, it is absolutely, positively, the flow of money. The wealth of a single oil family in the mid east(or a bunch for that matter) does not compare to the massive combined economic might of america. All the high tech countries either had all the resources they needed within their borders or were helped in BIG ways by wealthy countries.
 
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  • #32
Dayle Record said:
I think if a truly advanced civilization came here, they would live as the Greeks did, without the squabbling. They would find a climate as mild as the Mediterranean, and grow grapes and tomatoes, make wine, and frolic. They would not change the face of the Earth, they would realize the wonder of what is here.

If only an electable politician would say these words :frown: Regrettably of course this would mean sending an invading force to annex the Mediterranean. Sorry, Med :biggrin:

Dayle Record said:
...there is no us, and them. There is only us.

This is one of the biggest psychological hurdles that we face. We create walls against each other so automatically it almost seems like an intstinct.
 
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  • #33
selfAdjoint said:
But all we have left of many of these places is their monuments, and some pottery. Various tribes may have had beautiful relations as judged by modern western anthropologists, but if they didn't build or write things down, how would we ever know?

Most of what has been left by these ancient tribes, cultures, and nations have been lost or destroyed. They often depended on oral tradition to transmit values and knowledge. Some cultures had a written language but most of what was recorded was destroyed after European conquest. Even the oral traditions were disrupted. (There are also problems in translation and interpretation.) In some instances, the conquerors made interesting note of the people that they were destroying or enslaving. There were some cultural groups that had amazingly harmonious relationships within the group and relatively peaceful relationships with neighboring groups. One interesting note is a document apparently written by a Guanahani Taino who was christened Diego Colon. He was a child (of around twelve) when he became the personal servant and interpreter for Christopher Columbus. Later, he became the servant of Bishop Bartolomé de las Casas. Diego Colon writes about the encounter of the conquistadors with the Guanahani. José Barreiro has translated Diego Colon’s document into English under the book titled The Indian Chronicles, Arte Publico Press, University of Huston. Other bits and pieces of information are starting to appear here and there.

Descendants of some of these people still exist. (The Beaver people still exist.) As we began (if we do) to get in touch with our own humanity, perhaps other ways of knowing about these cultures will come to light.
 
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  • #34
India has an extremely ancient society, their vedas go back 175,000 years according to they way they keep time. Yet we don't chose to believe that; out of disrespect for all things non-western. They discuss Rama coming here in his ship, and enslaving the monkey men on this world, and etc. There is a lot of ancient history, that is erased totally, when the world occasionally rights its self, to distribute mass, and the ice caps are suddenly forming where the new top of the world has come to be. Things can be completely erased here.

true... recently read an article wherein Nasa discovered a stone path from India to sri lanka in a satellite pic which was built by Rama to travel to Sri lanka and get his wife, Sita back... but somehow, it wasnt given much importance..
 
  • #35
EngTechno said:
As we all know, Egypt , China, India, Babylon and Greece are ancient civilized countries in the world. By judging
1. Pyramids and Mummies (Egypt)
2. Mummies (like Egypt) and inventions from paper to rocketry (China)
3. Some mathematical achievements ( India )

and many others from these countries, people from these countries can be regarded as the intelligent people. However, today, these countries are far behind the Western countries in terms of Science and Technology. Do you know why? Can these countries become powerful countries as they did in the past again?


Does that imply that other cultures that can't claim an great ancient civilization wasn't intelligent? Or did they just not have a pharaoh at their backs? Do we consider hunter-gatherers, who are much better off in terms of energy expenditure, social equality, and nutritional and physiological health, to be less intelligent (at least they were until civilizations became a breeding den for pathogens)? I think the question was more of an aim at exploring the state of things today, but still, I'm curious.

Edit: ok, I scrolled thru a bit more and it seems the thread was addressing it. Carry on.
 
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