News Anger at the Filmmaker and Blasphemy in the Middle East

[leroyjenkens]

So if a US citizen murdered the filmmaker, they would praise the United States and stop saying "death to America"? I doubt it.
If it's true they blame an entire country for the actions of one person, I'm sure it doesn't work the other way; praising an entire country for the actions of one person.

 

[Bobbywhy]

Here is another opinion to consider in our discussion:

UNITED NATIONS (Reuters) - U.N. Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon said on Wednesday the maker of an anti-Islam film that triggered violent protests across the Muslim world abused his right to freedom of expression by making the movie, which he called a "disgraceful and shameful act."

"Freedoms of expression should be and must be guaranteed and protected, when they are used for common justice, common purpose," Ban told a news conference.

"When some people use this freedom of expression to provoke or humiliate some others' values and beliefs, then this cannot be protected in such a way."

"My position is that freedom of expression, while it is a fundamental right and privilege, should not be abused by such people, by such a disgraceful and shameful act," he said.

http://news.yahoo.com/un-chief-says-anti-islam-filmmaker-abused-freedom-205207133.html

 

[Bobbywhy]

One more example of freedom of speech being protected here in the USA:

NEW YORK, Sept 19 | Wed Sep 19, 2012 7:28pm EDT

(Reuters) - As Muslim countries reverberate with fierce protests over a film mocking the Prophet Mohammad, an ad equating Islamic jihad with savagery is due to appear next week in 10 New York City subway stations despite transit officials' efforts to block it.

The city's Metropolitan Transportation Authority had refused the ads, citing a policy against demeaning language. The American Freedom Defense Initiative, which is behind the ad campaign, then sued and won a favorable ruling from a U.S. judge in Manhattan.

According to court documents, the ad reads: "In any war between the civilized man and the savage, support the civilized man. Support Israel/Defeat Jihad."

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/09/19/usa-muslim-ads-idUSL1E8KJH1Q20120919?type=marketsNews

 

[russ_watters]

I'm wondering: does anyone have any examples of American governments attempting to suppress freedom of speech in anti-Christian speech? Or even just denounced it as abuse of freedom of speech?

 

[Evo]

I'm wondering: does anyone have any examples of American governments attempting to suppress freedom of speech in anti-Christian speech? Or even just denounced it as abuse of freedom of speech?

I don't know of any anti-christian hate speech. Do you have examples? I'm sure I could find a lot of hate speeches by Christians that weren't suppressed (abortion, gay rights, etc...)

 

[Bobbywhy]

I'm wondering: does anyone have any examples of American governments attempting to suppress freedom of speech in anti-Christian speech? Or even just denounced it as abuse of freedom of speech?

I looked for and could not easily find any "any examples of American governments attempting to suppress freedom of speech in anti-Christian speech?" that you asked about.

You have posted lots examples of vile attacks on lots of Religions.
But nothing in what you have posted contains any example of the "American government's ..."

 

[russ_watters]

Russ, we don't even allow those websites here. They aren't mainstream. Do you have any examples of hate speech against christians that people saw in mainstream media?

Huh?

1. All of those are examples from mainstream media, with the exception of the gay club, which is a link the the actual website. But you can find references to them in mainstream media too. It is just that some of my examples are linked from sites criticizing them instead of the original sources.

2. The the example that serves as the prototype for this thread was not produced by mainstream media, so it is an odd criteria for you to invoke here.

3. You asked if I knew of any anti-Christian hate speech. I do and I showed it.

4. We're not discussing the content of any of those links directly, just like this thread is not discussing the merits and teachings of Islam or Christianity. Neither rule applies. This would be like if you asked me for examples of crackpottery and then said it was a violation of the rules to post the examples!

And sorry, I'm Roman Catholic so I was raised believing that I wasn't associated with Protestant Christian religions. We were against protestant christians, you know, since they burned so many Catholics at the stake trying to wipe Catholics out of existence in Europe. So when you said "christian" I thought "protestant".

Sure, it is tautological that every religion thinks it is doing it right and thinks all others are doing it wrong, but the definition of "Christianity" is pretty straightforward. And I gave examples of both (including examples that can't be differentiated). Apology accepted, though -- but again...relevance? I was providing examples of double-standard/juxtaposition wrt to Islam. I could have picked any other religion as an example: Judaism? Mormonism? Buddhism? It was just easier to find more examples by casting a wider net (though Judaism in particular probably gets more than Christianity).

 

[Evo]

Russ when I asked for examples, I expected examples from mainstream media sources that we recognize. And yes, we even recognize fox news.

When I asked to have the rules on what constitutes "primary sources" I was told we didn't have to be more specific in the rules because everyone should know what a "primary source" is, and if not, then I should state what is acceptable.

Russ, I've never heard of the sites you linked to. They are not "primary sites".

 

[russ_watters]

But nothing in what you have posted contains any example of the "American government's ..."

Yes, I know: I was fulfilling Evo's request, not my request. I looked for examples of governments' suppression of speech against other religions and couldn't find any, which is why I asked others if they'd seen any. Point being, we know that anti-religion speech exists against multiple major religions, but I don't know if there is government suppression of it for any religion but Islam.

FYI, there is one iffy example I can think of: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piss_Christ

This example is not of suppression, though, because the scandal was over the fact that the government funded this defamation of Christianity as art.

 

[Evo]

Yes, I know: I was fulfilling Evo's request, not my request. I looked for examples of governments' suppression of speech against other religions and couldn't find any, which is why I asked others if they'd seen any.

And I asked if you had any examples, examples of what was in your post, why would you think anything else?

No, you asked about government suppression of anti-christian speech.

I'm wondering: does anyone have any examples of American governments attempting to suppress freedom of speech in anti-Christian speech?

 

[Evo]

Thread is going to go to sleep tonight. Maybe it will re-open tomorrow.