Another reminder on finding eigenvectors

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    Eigenvectors
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the process of finding eigenvalues and eigenvectors for different types of matrices, specifically diagonal and upper triangular matrices. Participants explore the characteristics of these matrices and the implications for determining eigenvalues and eigenvectors.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant asserts that for a diagonal matrix, eigenvalues and eigenvectors can be easily identified, providing an example with a diagonal matrix.
  • Another participant clarifies that for an upper triangular matrix, the eigenvalues are the diagonal elements, correcting an earlier claim about the eigenvalue.
  • There is a discussion about the eigenvector corresponding to the second eigenvalue, with one participant providing a general method for finding eigenvectors for triangular matrices.
  • A participant questions the correctness of their eigenvector calculation, suggesting a possible typo in their earlier message regarding the eigenvector associated with the second eigenvalue.
  • Another participant corrects a calculation regarding the difference between eigenvalues, leading to further clarification on the values involved.
  • One participant acknowledges a typo in their previous message regarding the equation for the eigenvector.
  • There is a mention of crediting a quote, indicating a meta-discussion about proper attribution in the context of the discussion.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the process of finding eigenvalues for triangular matrices, but there are discrepancies regarding specific eigenvector calculations and interpretations of the results. The discussion remains unresolved with respect to the exact form of the eigenvector associated with the second eigenvalue.

Contextual Notes

Some assumptions regarding the values of x and their implications on eigenvalues and eigenvectors are not fully resolved. There are also dependencies on the definitions and interpretations of the matrices discussed.

eherrtelle59
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Another question with respect to finding eigenvectors.

If I remember correctly, I should be able to look at certain 2 by 2 matrices and practically write down the eigenvalues and eigenvectors.

For example, I have a diagonal matrix, I know immediately what the eigenvalues and eigenvectors are.

E.g. M = \begin{bmatrix}
1 &0 \\[0.3em]
0 & x \\[0.3em]

\end{bmatrix}

Well, I know immediately λ_1 =1, λ_2 = x and that the eigenvectors are e_1 = (1 0) and e_2 = (0 1).

Now, what about an upper diagonal matrix?

Take M = \begin{bmatrix}
-1 & -1 \\[0.3em]
0 & x-(1/4) \\[0.3em]

\end{bmatrix}

I can see λ_1=1 and that e_1 = (1 0)

How do you find the second eigenvalue and eigenvector?
 
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In a "triangular matrix", just as in a diagonal matrix, the numbers on the diagonal are the eigenvalues. In your example they are -1, NOT 1, and x- (1/4).

More generally, if your matrix is
\begin{bmatrix} a & 0 \\ -1 & b\end{bmatrix}
then a and b are the eigenvalues.

The eigenvector corresponding to eigenvalue a must satisfy
\begin{bmatrix} a & -1 \\ 0 & b\end{bmatrix}\begin{bmatrix}x \\ y\end{bmatrix}= \begin{bmatrix}ax & ay\end{bmatrix}
so that we have equations ax- y= ax and by= ay. The first equation, on subtracting ax from both sides, gives -y= 0 so y= 0. The second equation, which is equivalent to (b- a)y= 0 also gives y= 0. An eigenvector corresponding to eigenvalue a is <1, 0> as you say.

The eigenvector corresponding to eigenvalue b must satisfy
\begin{bmatrix} a &amp; 1 \\ 0 &amp; b\end{bmatrix}\begin{bmatrix}x \\ y\end{bmatrix}= \begin{bmatrix}bx \\ by\end{bmatrix}
which gives the equations ax- y= bx and by= by. The first equation is the same as y= (b- a)x while the second equation is satisfied by any y. Any eigenvector is of the form <x, y>= <x, (b-a)x>= x<1, b-a>.

In your case, with a= 1 and b= x- 1/4, 1 is an eigenvalue with corresponding eigenvector <1, 0> (or any multiple) and x- 1/4 is an eigenvalue with corresponding eigenvector <1, x- 5/4>.
 
This makes sense, but according to what I have here, the eigenvector should be
λ_2 = <-1 x+ (3/4)>

This is assuming x-(1/4) > 0. Would that make a difference or is what I have a typo?
 
i.e. b-a is 1-(-1/4)=3/4, right?
 
No, 1- (-1/4)= 1+ 1/4 = 5/4, not 3/4.
 
Typo on my part.

we get for the "b value" an equation -v_1-v_2 = (x-1/4)*v_1

This is -v_2 =(x+3/4)*v_1
 
That is, using your equation ax- y= bx

a=-1, b=(x-1/4)
 
perhaps you should credit the author for the quote at the bottom of your post -- Edna St. Vincent Millay
 

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