Application to PhD in Physics in the USA

[Safwan]

Hello everyone! I did my BSc in Electrical Engineering and MSc in Communicative Electronics (Specialty- Electronic Engineering). I have one paper publication in IEEE. However, I have low GPAs in both BSc and MSc (around 2.5 on a scale of 4). Will it be possible for me to get a PhD in Physics or related subject in the United States? If you have any idea, could you please share some University names? Thank you

 

[berkeman]

Welcome to PF.

(around 2.5 on a scale of 4)

Ouch. What classes did you do well in and what classes did you get the low grades in? Can you say why you got those low grades in those classes?

 

[Vanadium 50]

Will it be possible for me to get a PhD in Physics

Very, very unlikely.

If you can pay full tuition yourself, I would move this up to somewhere between "unlikely" and "very unlikely".

 

[gwnorth]

Students wishing to pursue a PhD who did not do well in their undergraduate studies will often complete a master's first to show that they are capable of performing better academically. You did not demonstrate this. Why do you think you were not able to improve your grades in your master's and how would you explain that to an admissions committee? Physics PhD's are highly competitive for admission and attract highly accomplished applicants. What do you have to offer that would be exceptional enough to overshadow your grades?

The second issue is that it sounds like you may not understand what a PhD is either. It's not like a master's where you may take a bunch of courses. It's predominantly a research degree and a such you need to determine a specific topic of research to pursue for your studies. That means that you need to identify researchers you would ideally be a good match for with regards to the work that they're pursuing. You don't just randomly apply to PhD programs in Physics based on your academic stats.

Finally how do degrees in electrical and electronics engineering prepare you to do a PhD in Physics? If you want to do a PhD, why aren't you targeting EE PhD programs?

 

[Vanadium 50]

Students wishing to pursue a PhD who did not do well in their undergraduate studies will often complete a master's first to show that they are capable of performing better academically.

I see this advice here a lot. Thing is, what I don't see are a good number of graduate students who have followed this path. If this were a viable path forward, grad schools would be chock full of these people.

Yes, I've heard the argument "but what else should I do?". I don't have an answer, other than "probably come up with another plan": Yes, it's not very nice to say this, but it is nicer than letting someone spend their time and money on a plan that seldom, if ever works.

Besides, the OP already has a masters. How many does he need to collect?

 

[Vanadium 50]

Some numbers. I will surely get dinged because these numbers are harsh.

• About 2000 people get into US grad schools per year. A little less than half are internationals.
• MIT overall (not a bad proxy for physics PhDs, and they publish statistics) has 3 Estonians in 3500 intertaionals. So we are looking at an average of 0.8 slots.
• About 4 students in 1500 have GPAs at or below 2.5. So we are at 1/487.
• In my class, and the previous and following 2 classes we had 65 students. One did not have a BS in physics and was required to start with upper division undergrad classes. (He was also a "diversity" student, so allowances were made) That gets us to 1 in 31,000: the odds of flipping a coin 154 times and having it come up heads.

We can - and probably will - quibble about whether this is 0.003% or a number an order of magnitude bigger or an order of magnitude smaller. It really doesn't matter. The OP is simply nowhere near the line between getting in and not getting in.

 

[Haborix]

Some numbers. I will surely get dinged because these numbers are harsh.

• About 2000 people get into US grad schools per year. A little less than half are internationals.
• MIT overall (not a bad proxy for physics PhDs, and they publish statistics) has 3 Estonians in 3500 intertaionals. So we are looking at an average of 0.8 slots.
• About 4 students in 1500 have GPAs at or below 2.5/ So we are at 1487.
• In my class, and the previous and following 2 classes we had 65 students. One did not have a BS in physics and was required to start with upper division undergrad classes. (He was also a "diversity" student, so allowances were made) That gets us to 1 in 31,000: the odds of flipping a coin 154 times and having it come up heads.

We can - and probably will - quibble about whether this is 0.003% or a number an order of magnitude bigger or an order of magnitude smaller. It really doesn't matter. The OP is simply nowhere near the line between getting in and not getting in.

And further to your point, we can infer that the small number of outliers you identify had some strong mitigating factor we do not know about. If they didn't, then each university would have no problem admitting a student with a higher GPA, test score, etc.

 

[Vanadium 50]

Mitigating factors? Something that doubles the odds isn't going to help: 0.003% and 0.006% are the same number. Maybe if Daddy can donate a few buildings to the school it would be sufficiently mitigating. Maybe.

 

[Haborix]

My reply was more in the spirit of saying your estimate is an upper-bound.

 

[gwnorth]

I see this advice here a lot. Thing is, what I don't see are a good number of graduate students who have followed this path. If this were a viable path forward, grad schools would be chock full of these people.

Yes, I've heard the argument "but what else should I do?". I don't have an answer, other than "probably come up with another plan": Yes, it's not very nice to say this, but it is nicer than letting someone spend their time and money on a plan that seldom, if ever works.

Besides, the OP already has a masters. How many does he need to collect?

It's a strategy of variable effectiveness but the results are not 0. In any case however you misunderstood me. My response was not a suggestion for the OP to get another master's degree. My follow up was

You did not demonstrate this. Why do you think you were not able to improve your grades in your master's and how would you explain that to an admissions committee?

My intent was to encourage the OP to consider if pursuing a PhD is actually a realistic goal for them. I categorically do not believe the OP should get another master's (and I'm not convinced they should be pursuing a PhD either).

 

[Safwan]

Thanks a lot, people! There's an amazingly high volume of discussion above! However, can anyone please suggest any field at all for me to pursue a PhD in within the United States where there's a considerable chance for me having considered my qualifications and scores? Please reply.

 

[Vanadium 50]

I am afraid your chances are very low in any field. Your GPA has demonstrated you cannot handle graduate-level or even undergraduate-level work at the level expected of a PhD in EE, and in other fields you have that problem plus a lack of preparation.

There are an infinite number of students from China and India who want to study in the US with much stronger track records. A US grad school needs a good reason to pick you over one of them, and you have not provided one.

Sorry to have to tell you this.

 

[CrysPhys]

Thanks a lot, people! There's an amazingly high volume of discussion above! However, can anyone please suggest any field at all for me to pursue a PhD in within the United States where there's a considerable chance for me having considered my qualifications and scores? Please reply.

<<Emphasis added>> Any field at all? How far afield are you willing to go? E.g., suppose you could get a PhD in Estonian literature. Would you do it? What is your goal in obtaining a PhD, and why do you want to pursue a PhD specifically in the US?

 

[Vanadium 50]

suppose you could get a PhD in Estonian literature

University of Washington does have a program in Baltic studies....

 

[gwnorth]

can anyone please suggest any field at all for me to pursue a PhD in within the United States

I have to echo what @CrysPhys has said. Why do you want to get a PhD? When someone asks about the ability to get a PhD, any PhD, regardless of field, I have to question their motivation for doing so and if they really understand what a PhD is. It's a research degree designed to produce scientists who are specialists in their field. What it is not, is a guaranteed pathway to immigration and a lucrative career (apologies if my presumptions regarding your motivations are incorrect).

In any case you haven't answered why you performed so poorly in your undergrad and master's and how you would convince a PhD committee to select you over the 100's of other applicants with much better profiles. PhD programs are highly competitive for admission and so far you haven't indicated anything in your profile that would make you a competitive admit, in any field.

 

[StatGuy2000]

To those who have replied to this thread:

I have a strong suspicion that the OP is a troll or otherwise a spam poster, given that the poster has only 2 posts reported here on PF, and given the nature of the posts thus far (it is very difficult for me to believe that someone who has reported such low grades in a different field would even consider pursuing a PhD in physics).

Moderators -- I suggest that this thread be closed for moderation.

 

[WWGD]

Well, in case it's not spam, go for a top 5 percent, i.e., 95 percentile in both the general and subject GREs for a Hail Mary/Moses/Shiva/Mohamed pass.

 

[Vanadium 50]

While I agree with @StatGuy2000 that something is fishy with this thread, I don't think this is good advice. The general GRE is largely irrelevant, and while a high PGRE is helpful, a 95% is not going to compensate. The odds are still a fraction of a percent.