Are All Countable Sets Closed?

  • Context: MHB 
  • Thread starter Thread starter OhMyMarkov
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Closed Sets
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the properties of countable sets in topology, specifically whether all countable sets are closed. Participants explore definitions of countability, provide examples, and challenge initial claims regarding the closure of countable sets.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that all countable sets are closed, starting with finite sets and the natural numbers as examples.
  • Another participant corrects the claim that the natural numbers are finite and provides a counterexample of a countable set that is not closed, specifically the set of reciprocals of natural numbers.
  • Another example is provided, stating that the set of all rational numbers is countable but not closed, as its closure includes all real numbers.
  • A participant acknowledges a misunderstanding regarding the definition of countability and expresses a need to review it.
  • One participant clarifies that a set is countable if it is finite or has a bijection with the natural numbers.
  • Another participant notes that in certain metrics, such as the discrete metric, countable sets can be open, suggesting that there are countably many countable sets that are open.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not agree on the initial claim that all countable sets are closed, with multiple counterexamples provided that demonstrate countable sets can be open or not closed.

Contextual Notes

There are unresolved definitions and properties regarding countability and closure in different topological spaces, as well as the implications of various metrics on the openness or closedness of sets.

OhMyMarkov
Messages
81
Reaction score
0
Hello everyone!

I want to show that all countable sets are closed. I can show that finite sets are closed, and the set of all natural numbers is closed by showing its complement to be a union of open sets. Now, can I start like this:

A is a countable set. Every element in A can be "mapped" to an element in N by the property of countability (I presume). N is finite, so A is finite too.

Is there proof correct, if it is but technically incorrect, could you suggest a better proof.

Thanks! :o
 
Physics news on Phys.org
$\Bbb N$ is not finite!

And not all countable sets are closed: take the real line with usual topology, and $S:=\{n^{-1},n\in\Bbb N\}$ is countable, but not closed (as $0$ is in the closure but not in the set).
 
Another example: the set of all rational numbers is countable but not closed- its closure is the set of all real numbers.
 
I apologize about saying N is finite, I forgot to edit that out. I believe I must review what countability strictly means.
 
A set is countable if it is finite or there is a bijection with $\mathbb{N}$. :D
 
If you consider the naturals (any subset) or rationals or something with the discrete metric then these are open, so you have (at least) countably many countable sets that are open :)
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
4K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
5K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
3K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
3K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
3K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
3K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 18 ·
Replies
18
Views
3K