Are Banks Exploiting Customers Through Overdraft Charges?

[Schrodinger's Dog]

You've already squandered hundreds of pounds in needless overdraft fees, yet somehow you claim that you couldn't manage to keep a hundred pounds in the account as a pad? That doesn't make sense. You should strive to have at least one month of living expenses in your checking account, preferably three or more.

I think you miss the point, I could never cover the charges. I put in all I could.

Yes I'm sure everyone strives to try and keep up with $120 dollar charges when they are unemployed. I couldn't, I guess that makes me evil.

3 months I take it you have been unemployed for 5 months and found that you could easily not dip into savings? I guess also if you didn't have them you would find it equally easy to do so?

I'm not expecting anyone to understand, the fact is the banks are being sued left right and centre for their practices and successfully too, like I could care less. The charges are stupid and they are about to be pronounced so in law. As far as I'm concerned that's a victory for common sense.

Maybe they're so gracious because I've been a valuable customer that has never given them any kind of a headache. You say you've been a long-time customer, as if that should automatically give you some kind of preferred status. The truth is, you've been a lousy customer the entire time, so what's in it for them?

- Warren

So banks actually are gracious because of how wealthy you are. And I'd hardly say I've been a bad customer for going overdrawn twice with them in 8 years. Basically they are nice to you because you have lots of money. They are nasty to me because I don't, I hardly find that to be a reason to change your attitude. Like I said before when I was a student they were nice as pie. The moment I became a low earner or unemployed they turned nasty.

 

[chroot]

I think you miss the point, I could never cover the charges. I put in all I could.

You can check online or via telephone to get your balance up-to-the-minute, right? So whenever you write a check or use your debit card, you should know exactly whether or not you can cover it. With the advent of electronic banking and instantaneous balances, there's no longer any excuse for overdrafting -- which is probably why the banks jacked the fines up so high. It's not like the old days when all business was conducted via checks that took 5-10 business days to clear, and overdrafting was sometimes unavoidable.

Yes I'm sure everyone strives to try and keep up with $120 dollar charges when they are unemployed. I couldn't, I guess that makes me evil.

Don't put words in the mouths of others. I never called you evil, but I definitely think you need to wise up a bit here. You can stop this overdraft problem, so do it. Stop trying to make it the bank's fault. You know exactly what will happen if you overdraft again, so stop doing it.

- Warren

 

[Schrodinger's Dog]

It is though. So you approve of charging people beyond their ability to pay? I'm sure every time people use their debit cards, or a cheque they check up on their account, oh come on, like you have never made a mistake about your finances?

It was a one off mistake, it happens, I don't see the logic in doubling up charges because of a simple mistake. And I am not a bad customer anyway.

Stop making mistakes. :rofl: Sorry boss. I'm as careful as the next man, in fact often very careful, but sometimes interest goes through, or an expense you weren't expecting. That happens to everyone. The difference between me and you is when it happens to you, you have the money to cover it because you have money above and beyond all the time, and that's about it.

 

[chroot]

So banks actually are gracious because of how wealthy you are, and I'd hardly say I've been a bad customer for going overdrawn twice with them.

I don't understand. First you're claiming that you overdrafted so many times, and collected so many fees, that you had to literally walk away from the bank. Then you did the same thing to another bank, and went back to the first one, and are now in the same predicament all over with the new one.

Now, you're claiming that you've only overdrafted twice, and are otherwise a model customer. What's your deal? I get the feeling you're painting a far rosier picture of yourself than you should.

Basically they are nice to you because you have lots of money. They are nasty to me because I don't, I hardly find that to be a reason to change your attitude. Like I said before when I was a student they were nice as pie. The moment I became a low earner or unemployed they turned nasty.

There's a whole lotta personalization going on here. Do you realize that? This is about the tenth time you've repeated this mantra that somehow your wage status makes them think less of you and treat you especially poorly. You're grasping for some nebulous reason to think the bank is against you, rather than just accepting that you screwed up and owe the fees that you agreed to in your contract. I get the feeling that you have adequacy issues, and want us all to believe this is some kind of mistreatment based on your socioeconomic status, when it just honestly, clearly, is not. You wrote a check you could not cover. Wake up.

- Warren

 

[cristo]

It's not quite $120 though is it?

£12.50 or so sounds fair enough. I'm assuming they don't roll the charges over.

You can't just compare prices like that-- you can't say the £30 fees in the UK is equal to $60 fees in the US. Being charged $25 bank fees on a US bank account is equivalent to being charged £25 bank fees on a UK bank account. If you go to the US you don't see things that in the UK cost £10 costing $20.. they cost $10 (OK roughly speaking).

 

[Schrodinger's Dog]

I was charged for being charged, then charged for being charged then charged for being charged, because I couldn't keep up, I hardly find myself at fault for being unable to pay charges that are ludicrously inflated anyway.

You can't just compare prices like that-- you can't say the £30 fees in the UK is equal to $60 fees in the US. Being charged $25 bank fees on a US bank account is equivalent to being charged £25 bank fees on a UK bank account. If you go to the US you don't see things that in the UK cost £10 costing $20.. they cost $10 (OK roughly speaking).

Well they don't do it in Europe either, but as you well know, banks aren't going to publicise their fees.

There's a whole lotta personalization going on here. Do you realize that? This is about the tenth time you've repeated this mantra that somehow your wage status makes them think less of you and treat you especially poorly. You're grasping for some nebulous reason to think the bank is against you, rather than just accepting that you screwed up and owe the fees that you agreed to in your contract. I get the feeling that you have adequacy issues, and want us all to believe this is some kind of mistreatment based on your socioeconomic status, when it just honestly, clearly, is not. You wrote a check you could not cover. Wake up.

- Warren

Wake up to what? That you get **** on from a great height if you can't afford to pay charges?

Yeah seriously, I'm the one that needs to wake up here?

I made a mistake it cost me £300 pounds, despite my best efforts? Is that really fair, don't you think had it happened to you, that circumstances might of been different? Tell me why when I say I can't pay, they say there's nothing we can do, in fact let's make it better by introducing more charges. That makes sense.

 

[chroot]

It is though. So you approve of charging people beyond their ability to pay? I'm sure every time people use their debit cards, or a cheque they check up on their account, oh come on, like you have never made a mistake about your finances?

I agree that the fees are very large, but that would seem to be a major deterrent against overdrafting -- but for some reason, it's not working for you.

It was a one off mistake, it happens, I don't see the logic in doubling up charges because of a simple mistake. And I am not a bad customer anyway.

First it was so many mistakes that you had to leave two different banks for the same problems. Then it was three mistakes in eight years, then a few posts ago it was down to just two. Now, apparently, you'd like us all to believe this has actually only happened once? You're incredible.

Stop making mistakes. :rofl: Sorry boss. I'm as careful as the next man, in fact often very careful, but sometimes interest goes through, or a charge you weren't expecting. That happens to everyone.

You should not be charged interest anyway, unless you're under the account's minimum balance requirement or are otherwise not meeting your end of the deal. You've also said that your "interest" is only a few pounds a month. If you are literally so close to zero that a three-pound fee puts you into overdraft, then you're just not responsible with your money. Use this as a learning experience and move on with your life.

- Warren

 

[cristo]

You can stop this overdraft problem, so do it. Stop trying to make it the bank's fault. You know exactly what will happen if you overdraft again, so stop doing it.

Finally, some words of wisdom in this thread!

 

[Schrodinger's Dog]

Finally, some words of wisdom in this thread!

Stop making mistakes occasionally, and in fact not often? That passes for wisdom does it?

Warren it's two with this bank, unless they have some sort of psychic ability there's no way they can know about the other bank. Because my credit rating is still flawless.

You should not be charged interest anyway, unless you're under the account's minimum balance requirement or are otherwise not meeting your end of the deal. You've also said that your "interest" is only a few pounds a month. If you are literally so close to zero that a three-pound fee puts you into overdraft, then you're just not responsible with your money. Use this as a learning experience and move on with your life.

- Warren

I'm not paying it, and the likelihood is I won't have to. I'm sure that eats you up inside, because justice has not been served. But frankly I don't think anything about the situation has any sort of air of justice.

You get charged interest for an overdraft facility. Almost everyone has one.

Since the average amount of debt in this country is well over £20,000 pounds. And I have £300 I'd say that I'm more responsible than most.

 

[chroot]

Stop making mistakes occasionally, and in fact not often? That passes for wisdom does it?

Sounds pretty wise to me.

I'm not paying it, and the likelihood is I won't have to. I'm sure that eats you up inside, because justice has not been served. But frankly I don't think anything about the situation has any sort of air of justice.

I couldn't care less about whether or not you pay your bank, nor about "justice" in any form in this situation. I think this entire thread is hysterical actually. Your distortions are really, really comical.

You get charged interest for an overdraft facility. Almost everyone has one.

I don't have an overdraft plan. If you really, truly do not think you can avoid overdrafting (and I think it's positively silly for you to claim that you cannot), how about trying a different strategy?

Go into your bank, and offer to open a credit card with them, with a low limit, say 500 or 1,000 pounds. Make an agreement with the bank that you will only open a credit card if it has no annual fees, and they agree to make cash advances against it when you overdraft.

Take the card home, and leave it in a drawer somewhere. You'll help your credit score a bit, you'll eliminate the possibility of fees, and if you still just can't manage to stop overdrafting, you'll just end up with the amount on a credit card, which you can pay off within a month with no penalty, or pay off more slowly if you're in a major bind.

If your bank will not agree to link your accounts or offer you this kind of service, then find another bank who will, and break this endless cycle.

- Warren

 

[Schrodinger's Dog]

Sounds pretty wise to me.
I couldn't care less about whether or not you pay your bank, nor about "justice" in any form in this situation. I think this entire thread is hysterical actually. Your distortions are really, really comical.

No it's quite clear justice has never been a part of your argument.

I don't have an overdraft plan. If you really, truly do not think you can avoid overdrafting (and I think it's positively silly for you to claim that you cannot), how about trying a different strategy?

Go into your bank, and offer to open a credit card with them, with a low limit, say 500 or 1,000 pounds. Make an agreement with the bank that you will only open a credit card if it has no annual fees, and they agree to make cash advances against it when you overdraft.

Can't do that on a current account.

Take the card home, and leave it in a drawer somewhere. You'll help your credit score a bit, you'll eliminate the possibility of fees, and if you still just can't manage to stop overdrafting, you'll just end up with the amount on a credit card, which you can pay off within a month with no penalty, or pay off more slowly if you're in a major bind.

If your bank will not agree to link your accounts or offer you this kind of service, then find another bank who will, and break this endless cycle.

- Warren

No bank will on a current account. And there's no reason for me to have a credit card anyway.

I really wish you stop using hyperbole, going overdrawn 3 times in 8 years is hardly a never ending cycle. I don't think it's making your case any more apt.

I'm not complaining about overdrafting I'm complaining about having to pay £300 pounds, and in fact now without putting a stop to it it's likely to just run away into thousands and thousands of pounds.

I think I'd be an idiot to not put my foot down and say enough is enough. I can't pay this, I won't pay this.

 

[chroot]

No bank will on a current account. And there's no reason for me to have a credit card anyway.

Like I said, if the bank will not offer you this service, then go find another who will. Most banks would be happy to set something like that up for you. I've used these kinds of set-ups before; they're quite common and seem like they would work very well for you.

If you're too dense to understand, I'm not suggesting that you get a credit card to actually use. I'm only suggesting that you get a credit card which can be used only as a line of credit for overdraft protection.

Or perhaps you're not actually here to find any kind of solution to the problem?

- Warren

 

[cristo]

I'm not complaining about overdrafting I'm complaining about having to pay £300 pounds, and in fact now without putting a stop to it it's likely to just run away into thousands and thousands of pounds.

I think I'd be an idiot to not put my foot down. And say enough is enough.

:rofl: It's hardly very intelligent to knowingly let your debt with a bank increase and increase with more fees and compound interest on an unarranged overdraft is it?

 

[Schrodinger's Dog]

Like I said, if the bank will not offer you this service, then go find another who will. Most banks would be happy to set something like that up for you. I've used these kinds of set-ups before; they're quite common and seem like they would work very well for you.

If you're too dense to understand, I'm not suggesting that you get a credit card to actually use. I'm only suggesting that you get a credit card which can be used only as a line of credit for overdraft protection.

Or perhaps you're not actually here to find any kind of solution to the problem?

- Warren

None will on a current account. And resorting to ad hominems is also not making your case any better either.

And I don't see why I should have to get a credit card to protect against charges that just build and build forever, IMO it would be more sensible to just say "I tell you what why don't we freeze the charges and you just pay what you can", something that you personally would probably get in the blink of an eye. Because your bank doesn't treat you like a second class prole.

I think credit cards are pointless, I don't need one just to pay off stupidly over the top charges that will be removed as soon as I kick up a fuss anyway, if not in a court of law.

:rofl: It's hardly very intelligent to knowingly let your debt with a bank increase and increase with more fees and compound interest on an unarranged overdraft is it?

Well that was worthless, why don't you go back and read the thread, there was nothing I could do, because I couldn't afford the charges, no matter how hard I tried.

My way is better anyway, these cases always result in the bank having to pay back charges. Because as someone said earlier, it's all but illegal apart form the court case. See I'm just adding my complaint to the thousands that have already been voiced, and already got all their money back. I'd rather make a statement than give into frankly skewed advice that has no real consideration of the reality.

I know it's unfair to the banks, they work hard to rip people off, but diddums frankly.

 

[chroot]

I really wish you stop using hyperbole, going overdrawn 3 times in 8 years is hardly a never ending cycle. I don't think it's making your case any more apt.

You've had to leave two banks because you could not handle the charges that you incurred yourself, and now you're teetering on the edge of doing it again. That sure sounds like an endless cycle to me.

I'm not complaining about overdrafting I'm complaining about having to pay £300 pounds, and in fact now without putting a stop to it it's likely to just run away into thousands and thousands of pounds.

You already knew quite well what would happen if you overdrafted. You've apparently had quite a bit of experience with it. The appropriate time to "put a stop to it" would be those times you make purchases you cannot cover.

- Warren

 

[chroot]

None will on a current account. And resorting to ad hominems is also not making your case any better either.

Then go find another bank who will set this up for you. It will solve all your damned problems. Why do you not want your problems to be solved?

- Warren

 

[chroot]

And I don't see why I should have to get a credit card to protect against charges that just build and build forever, IMO it would be more sensible to just say "I tell you what why don't we freeze the charges and you just pay what you can", something that you would probably get in the blink of an eye.

I think credit cards are pointless, I don't need one just to pay off stupidly over the top charges that will be removed as soon as I kick up a fuss anyway, if not in a court of law.

Do you want to solve the problem, or not?

- Warren

 

[chroot]

it would be more sensible to just say "I tell you what why don't we freeze the charges and you just pay what you can", something that you personally would probably get in the blink of an eye. Because your bank doesn't treat you like a second class prole.

Your bank doesn't treat you like a second-class anything. They are not judging your worth as a human being, dude. Your bank treats you like a person who habitually fails to keep enough money in his account to cover his expenditures. It's really that simple.

- Warren

 

[Schrodinger's Dog]

Do you want to solve the problem, or not?

- Warren

Yeah the way that people have been doing, suing the banks and winning over and over again. Seems like justice is served that way.

Your bank doesn't treat you like a second-class anything. They are not judging your worth as a human being, dude. Your bank treats you like a person who habitually fails to keep enough money in his account to cover his expenditures. It's really that simple.

- Warren

Yeah back in the real world.

Habitually would mean commonly that has never happened.

I know you'd just pay out the money. Me I am poor I can't afford to. Simple as that. So my only option is to take them to court and get it back. It's inevitable.

Given the choice, keep racking up illegal charges because I can't pay, or take them to court and get them removed. Hmmm it's a toughy, pardon me if I don't take your advice.

 

[Cyrus]

Warren meet my friend:

Please, continue talking.

 

[chroot]

Yeah the way that people have been doing, suing the banks and winning over and over again. Seems like justice is served that way.

Okay, so you don't want to solve the problem. You want to turn this into a war, one that you very probably will not win... rather than just making one small change to your banking set-up that will eliminate the problem in the future. Smart!

Habitually would mean commonly that has never happened.

Look, normal folks do not overdraft so frequently that they need to leave a bank, much less several banks! This is not common, this is not normal, this is not acceptable. You're acting as though everyone on Earth is in the same boat with you, when clearly you're an exceptionally bad customer.

- Warren

 

[Schrodinger's Dog]

So you think I should let the charges build to thousands of pounds, despite them being illegal? :rofl: ok but pardon me while I ignore your concerns.

Okay, so you don't want to solve the problem. You want to turn this into a war, one that you very probably will not win... rather than just making one small change to your banking set-up that will eliminate the problem in the future. Smart!

How is getting all your charges refunded not a win?

Look, normal folks do not overdraft so frequently that they need to leave a bank, much less several banks! This is not common, this is not normal, this is not acceptable. You're acting as though everyone on Earth is in the same boat with you, when clearly you're an exceptionally bad customer.

- Warren

3 times in 8 years? You people are just not aware of the real situation, if given the choice to rack up thousands in charges because I can't pay, rather than have a 100% chance of getting them all refunded is wise council then fair enough.

Let's face it the problem is the charges, the solution is the law.

 

[chroot]

I know you'd just pay out the money. Me I am poor I can't afford to. Simple as that. So my only option is to take them to court and get it back. It's inevitable.

Given the choice, keep racking up illegal charges because I can't pay, or take them to court and get them removed. Hmmm it's a toughy, pardon me if I don't take your advice.

You can't even afford the overdraft fees, much less the legal fees. You won't win anyway, because you agreed to the fees before you overdrafted. It's an asinine plan. What you need to do is suck up your mistakes and move on. I've given you a very clear solution, one that many, many other people use.

- Warren

 

[Schrodinger's Dog]

You can't even afford the overdraft fees, much less the legal fees. You won't win anyway, because you agreed to the fees before you overdrafted. It's an asinine plan. What you need to do is suck up your mistakes and move on. I've given you a very clear solution, one that many, many other people use.

- Warren

I won't win? Despite everyone who has tried it winning by default because the charges are illegal? The companies that do this charge 10% of your claim. It's a no loss situation. They exist simply to do this atm.

No I won't suck up my mistakes, I'll accept that I am human and that making mistakes shouldn't involve thousands in charges because you can't pay. Especially when the law is on my side.

It's not an asanine plan, because it actually works all the time.

 

[chroot]

Warren meet my friend:

...

Please, continue talking.

And, yeah, Cyrus. I understand. SD here has an ulterior motive, and is not interested in any practical, simple solutions.

- Warren

 

[Schrodinger's Dog]

And, yeah, Cyrus. I understand. SD here has an ulterior motive, and is not interested in any practical, simple solutions.

- Warren

Yeah ulterior motive is, to get justice. Sorry if my justice and my countries laws don't agree with yours; such is life.

Why get a credit card when you can get all your money back without it? Seems like an unnecessarily laboured condition?

In future? Well in future the charges will be made illegal so this won't be an issue, we will be paying only for the amount such charges incur. In fact if anything the sheer number of people that are doing this is just strengthening the case against banks. So why not jump on board the justice wagon?

 

[chroot]

Why get a credit card when you can get all your money back without it? Seems like an unnecessarily laboured condition?

1) If you propose this solution to your bank, they will likely accept it, and might be willing to cut you a break and dismiss the charges, too.

2) Because it will prevent this situation from happening again in the future, which should be your first order of business -- not "justice."

3) Because you will thereafter have a mutually pleasant relationship with your bank, and your life will be easier and more enjoyable in the future.

- Warren

 

[Schrodinger's Dog]

1) If you propose this solution to your bank, they will likely accept it, and might be willing to cut you a break and dismiss the charges, too.

2) Because it will prevent this situation from happening again in the future, which should be your first order of business -- not "justice."

3) Because you will thereafter have a mutually pleasant relationship with your bank, and your life will be easier and more enjoyable in the future.

- Warren

Why? I can't lose by my strategy?

Why have a pleasant relationship with morons? Who have repeatedly told me tough, if you can't pay, there's nothing we can do about it? Am I not allowed to complain about stupidity? I think personally that the solution I have put forward is of course the best solution, they certainly won't give me a credit card at the moment. And even if I could get one elsewhere why would I want to, there just something that gives you more temptation to spend beyond your limits. Am I supposed to get one because people are being stupid? Why not just let the law take its natural course, and if the bank hates me, why not just move to another one? They can't give me bad credit for winning a legal case, which is inevitable anyway? If they hate me so be it, frankly I really could open up another account at another bank tomorrow so why should I care?

I get to take the bank to court, win and then get a pleasant relationship with a new bank. And at the same time I get to take idiots, who have no concern for their customers to task. This is just win/win isn't it?

 

[chroot]

Ah, I see. So the real reason you don't like my solution is because you think you can't handle the responsibility of having a credit card, even one with a tiny limit that you keep in a drawer. Or, perhaps your credit is shot, and you don't want to admit here that no bank would give you a line of credit, anyway.

I maintain that the only person being stupid here is you. If you're so smart and they're such morons, why have they been so successful at parting you from your money? Just stop and think about that one a bit.

I'm done with this conversation, though, either way. Best of luck to you.

- Warren

 

[Schrodinger's Dog]

I maintain paying thousands of pounds in charges just to obey a moribund system is pointless. See where we differ? I can't lose my way, but I can pay at least £300 your way? That makes sense...

I never said I couldn't handle it, I just think it's wise not to put temptation in anyone's path. Particularly when you don't need to.

Let's see pay nothing because what the banks are doing is illegal or pay £300 because you agree with the system, hmmm another tough choice there.

 

[chroot]

You certainly can, and probably will, lose "your way." At least it'll be your way, though, right? Good luck.

- Warren

 

[Moonbear]

At least in the US, you'd have to make every effort first to mitigate your damages if you expected to collect on any unfair charges. In other words, you might be able to get back a part of what they charged you if you had no way to know you overdrafted and several charges piled up before you were made aware of the problem...such as when a deposit doesn't clear in time to cover a withdrawal made a day or two later. But, in a case like that, you usually can just talk to the bank and they'll reimburse that money anyway. If you continue to let the overdrafts and fees accumulate once you know you have a problem, you're not going to get anything for your own lack of sense in not at least closing the account to put an end to the fees. You also won't get the first overdraft fee refunded...that's your own fault for overdrafting, but you might get some intermediate fees between that one and when you got notice from the bank of the situation (like when your monthly statement arrives).

And, of course, if you expect your bank to be reasonable and refund your overdraft fees, you need to be reasonable and give them some form of assurance you won't do it again. They're in business too, and if you cost them money rather than make them money, they're not going to do anything for you and would prefer you walked out and took your business elsewhere.

Overdrafting 3 times in 8 years is a LOT. Most people never overdraft in their entire life. And, if you're maintaining such a low balance that overdraft fees can accumulate rather than quickly be covered to stop them while trying to recover the fees, why would a bank want your business at all? You might as well keep your cash under your mattress since you can't possibly even be earning interest on such a low balance to make it worthwhile having a bank account for anything other than cashing checks. You should strive harder to keep some savings so you have a buffer for such things. Even when I was a poor student, I'd scrimp and save to always maintain at least enough to cover one extra month of expenses...this provides a small safety net if you find you can't work for an extended illness or you lose a job and need to look for a new one, and was also available to cover an emergency expense...fixing the car, a visit to the doctor for an illness, etc...and then immediately scrimp and save to replenish that buffer.

 

[Schrodinger's Dog]

I didn't once I was aware I was straight in and asking them to stop the fees because I couldn't pay. They said there was nothing they could do.

I seriously think you don't understand the position customers are in atm, they will simply not pay if it is unfair, and they will take them to court and have charges removed because they are illegal. It's a simple case, of, no longer being bound by charges because sooner rather than later they won't exist in anything like the way they do now. Thus the large amount of businesses raking in cash on taking the banks to court.

You certainly can, and probably will, lose "your way." At least it'll be your way, though, right? Good luck.

- Warren

I can't lose. I'm not getting your point here?

 

[chroot]

:rofl: This is hilarious, Moonie. I have said every single thing you have said already -- every single thing! I wish you better luck with him, though!

- Warren

 

[Moonbear]

:rofl: This is hilarious, Moonie. I have said every single thing you have said already -- every single thing! I wish you better luck with him, though!

- Warren

Can you tell I didn't bother reading all of it before replying? :uhh:

SD, it really looks like you just want to gripe and moan, but not do anything to actually fix the problem you have. Fine, spend your life in debt if you want to live that way, just don't expect anyone to bail you out.