Are blackholes formed in other ways besides supernovas?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion explores various mechanisms by which black holes may form in nature, questioning the traditional view that they are primarily the result of supernova explosions following the collapse of massive stars. Participants consider alternative formation processes and the complexities surrounding the supernova-black hole relationship.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants note that supermassive black holes may form directly from the accumulation of gas and dust, bypassing the supernova process.
  • There is uncertainty regarding the relationship between supernovae and black hole formation, particularly the mass threshold at which a star may collapse directly into a black hole without a supernova.
  • One participant mentions that the merger of two neutron stars could result in the formation of a black hole if their combined mass exceeds a certain limit.
  • Another point raised is that a white dwarf can gain enough mass through accretion from a companion star, leading to its collapse into a black hole after first becoming a neutron star.
  • Primordial black holes are proposed as another formation mechanism, suggesting they originated from conditions present shortly after the Big Bang, rather than from the collapse of massive stars.
  • A participant corrects a misunderstanding regarding supernovae, clarifying that stars explode and the remnants can become black holes, rather than black holes themselves exploding.
  • Accretion-induced collapse is mentioned as a hypothesis where a binary system involving a white dwarf can lead to black hole formation through a series of gravitational collapses.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express multiple competing views on the formation of black holes, with no consensus reached regarding the mechanisms or the specifics of the supernova-black hole relationship.

Contextual Notes

Participants acknowledge uncertainties regarding the mass thresholds for black hole formation, the details of the supernova process, and the conditions necessary for primordial black holes.

mdmaaz
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In science books I always have read that supper massive black holes explode in a supernova once they run out of fuel. After that the core of the star collapses and forms a black hole. But are there other ways in which black holes are formed in nature, besides the the core of a big star collapsing after a supernova?
 
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mdmaaz said:
In science books I always have read that supper massive black holes explode in a supernova once they run out of fuel. After that the core of the star collapses and forms a black hole. But are there other ways in which black holes are formed in nature, besides the the core of a big star collapsing after a supernova?

There are monster black holes in the middle of most galaxies which seemed to have formed directly with gathering lots of gas and dust.

Also, we aren't sure about the details of the supernova/black hole relationship. The consensus seems to be that if you have a big enough star, it will go directly to a black hole without a supernova. However, where that boundary is, and if you can get a star go boom and then form a black hole is quite unclear.
 
IIRC, if two neutron stars merge, the sum could be enough for a black hole to form.
 
Accretion onto a white dwarf of neutron star can cause it to gain enough mass to collapse into a black hole. (Though the white dwarf would first collapse into a neutron star)
 
Also, primordial black holes, formed in the early stage of the history of the universe, might exist. Primordial black holes are not the result of the gravitational collapse of a pre-existing massive star, but were mainly created in the extreme conditions after the Big Bang. They might be of any size and some might be detected thanks to their Hawking radiation emission. See here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primordial_black_hole.
 
mdmaaz said:
In science books I always have read that supper massive black holes explode in a supernova once they run out of fuel. After that the core of the star collapses and forms a black hole. But are there other ways in which black holes are formed in nature, besides the the core of a big star collapsing after a supernova?

No, you have the first part of that statement backwards ... black holes don't explode in a supernova, STARS explode in a nova or supernova and the remnant of a supernova explosion can be (may always be, I'm not sure) a black hole. This IS what you're saying in the second part of your statement.
 
Accretion induced collapse is another hypothesis. Where a binary system made of two w.d(oxygen-magnesium) results a black hole.Essentially one of them goes onto become a red giant and other sucks in/accretes the less dense gases towards it.This drives further gravitational collapse which in a chain of events forms a neutron star.Once the Chandrasekhar limit is surpassed you end up with B.H however I have also read that a collapsed driven type 1A supernovae is also formed at that instant.
Other than that your usual transition of a B.H is by type II supernovae and ones mentioned by posters(above).
-ibysaiyan
 

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