Are Guns Silencing Free Speech?

[nismaratwork]

I know we're not talking about gun control. Forgive the cliche and please forgive the hyperbole, but, seriously...

Funny pic, but we are just talking about how to carry.

This kind of image aside (HOT):

We're talking about that, with or without an overshirt. I'd still call her well armed, wouldn't you? No?

ARE you SURE?

Remember, she's selling CONCEALED carry.

vs.

These ... um.. bags.

Really sir? The low drop leather holster with a long-handle revolver? Phew... I know cops who would rather go unarmed than armed like that. The gun screams, "take me, Ah drawr easah."

 

[DanP]

ARE you SURE?

Im very sure. I would hit on her in a blink of an eye.

 

[FlexGunship]

Funny pic, but we are just talking about how to carry.

You specifically asked: "why carry openly in everyday life?" I guess if you meant "as opposed to carrying concealed" then, fine.

I should mention that I'm NOT a gun owner; in the interest of full disclosure.

 

[nismaratwork]

I am speaking Hungarian man :P You forgot "... se veszi ki " You know, the action that the 100 geniuses can't do :P

No Dan, you're throwing stones into wells, but you're right, I forgot "se veszi ki"... the perils of not using Google.

Vak tyúk is talál szemet. Nemerted?

 

[nismaratwork]

You specifically asked: "why carry openly in everyday life?" I guess if you meant "as opposed to carrying concealed" then, fine.

I should mention that I'm NOT a gun owner; in the interest of full disclosure.

If there's a point in my argument where I'm arguing AGAINST carrying concealed... I can't find it. I'm arguing against open carry vs. concealed, the point being that it's a genuine point to debate as opposed to the fictional "1st vs. 2nd amendments."

As I've disclosed before, I own several pistols, a rifle, and a shotgun. I've never in my life felt the desire to hunt; I target shoot, sometimes I carry concealed (situational), and otherwise that's it. Never in my life have I felt the need to carry a gun, for the purpose of self defense, OPENLY.

 

[DanP]

Vak tyúk is talál szemet. Nemerted?

So cool! I figured this holds true by reading your posts.

 

[nismaratwork]

So cool! I figured this holds true by reading your posts.

You know... I don't think you've made a single substantive comment in this thread. Huh. I could quote another proverb, but really... I think 'Cee Lo Green' said it best:

"You closin' threads round PF like a bit of a thug, and uh, good luck to yoooouuu."

I think those are the lyrics.


Anyway, still don't have an answer to the question of, why open vs. concealed?

 

[DanP]

You know... I don't think you've made a single substantive comment in this thread.

While you amazed us all with your eloquence in Hungarian language.

Anyway, still don't have an answer to the question of, why open vs. concealed?

I never argued in favor of either. Its largely indifferent to me, so I see no reason to take sides in this pointless debate. I argue against irrational fear of weapons or irrational fear that anyone who carry (concealed or open) is a potential disaster waiting to happen.

And if you don't recall, this is not the subject of this thread. It is whatever guns infringe your right to free speech. Which I answered clearly, they DO NOT.

 

[Mech_Engineer]

Anyway, still don't have an answer to the question of, why open vs. concealed?

Who cares? It's pointless to argue one vs. the other, you can choose whichever you prefer. The original question of this thread was if open carry infringes on free speech, which it doesn't.

 

[nismaratwork]

While you amazed us all with your eloquence in Hungarian language.

I'm pleased with how I've expressed my point in this thread; it's the views of people like Flex, Jared, Mug, and others I care about... when it's down to you running at the mouth it seems to be your way of trying to lock threads. By the way, how's Kate Moss? *wink*

I never argued in favor of either. Its largely indifferent to me, so I see no reason to take sides in this pointless debate.

No kidding? I'd mistaken you for someone who cared, and not just a nihilist out to amuse himself. Thanks for the quality info. *WINK!*

I argue against irrational fear of weapons or irrational fear that anyone who carry (concealed or open) is a potential disaster waiting to happen.

Wait... what? Who's expressing that fear? You've tried to cast Jared in that role, but really he's just arguing along the non-gun owner line as myself, or visa versa if you like. Flex... I don't know yet. Mug is too damned responsible to carry his gun openly in a situation that would RAISE debate, and therefore isn't an issue. What's your experience with firearms anyway?

And if you don't recall, this is not the subject of this thread. It is whatever guns infringe your right to free speech. Which I answered clearly, they DO NOT.

No, the subject of the thread was nebulous, even by the admission of the OP. The concept pits two COMPATIBLE legal rights as though they conflicted. In response, as a group, we've isolated the one situation in which that's even an issue, and so far... I'm yet to hear a case for the "open carry" side.

Wait... didn't you just say:

I never argued in favor of either. Its largely indifferent to me, so I see no reason to take sides in this pointless debate.

?

Then talked about how you argued, and the intent of the thread? Here's an English colloquialism: blowing smoke. You're doing it.

 

[nismaratwork]

Who cares? It's pointless to argue one vs. the other, you can choose whichever you prefer. The original question of this thread was if open carry infringes on free speech, which it doesn't.

People care, it's an issue for voters and gun rights/control advocates. That is established fat, and a reason for the variation in laws by state.

So, without a dodge, do you have an answer or not? Why carry openly vs. concealed in a standard SD "jaunt" (no more gun shows or Ted Nugent hikes...)?

If you can't answer it, fine, but to say in the face of an ongoing debate in the courts that nobody cares is either ignorant, or dishonest.

edit:

While you amazed us all with your eloquence in Hungarian language.

Sidenote: If you'd like me to amaze you with ACTUAL eloquence in Hungarian, permit me to share via an email and I'll speak freely. You'll be, "amazed"... or offended... people can be so unpredictable.

 

[DanP]

Sidenote: If you'd like me to amaze you with ACTUAL eloquence in Hungarian, permit me to share via an email and I'll speak freely. You'll be, "amazed"... or offended... people can be so unpredictable.

Send a PM, genius :P

 

[DanP]

Wait... what? Who's expressing that fear? You've tried to cast Jared in that role, but really he's just arguing along the non-gun owner line as myself, or visa versa if you like. Flex... I don't know yet. Mug is too damned responsible to carry his gun openly in a situation that would RAISE debate, and therefore isn't an issue. What's your experience with firearms anyway?

My country had a mandatory conscription program until recently. Virtually all men my age have served in the armed forces.

 

[nismaratwork]

My country had a mandatory conscription program until recently. Virtually all men my age has served in the armed forces.

...Which in no way prepares you for civilian self defense except in terms of accuracy with a sidearm. My country had much the same, and the switch from military to civilian police is quite vast.

 

[nismaratwork]

Send a PM, genius :P

For this? No, nothing through this site.

 

[Proton Soup]

Would you feel that you could speak (or argue) freely with a person having his handgun displayed? I believe that I would be intimidated, so censoring my self-expression, by people (not of law enforcement) who use a handgun as a public warning of deadly force. Thus, most "self-deputized" citizens could suggest that their handgun trumps the voice of an individual unarmed.

By the way, one of my favorite sports has been target shooting, but I would never wear a (hand)gun.

i find the law enforcement officer to be the bigger censor of self-expression. because he's the one that actually has the authority to order you to disperse, or worse, to take you into custody.

 

[Mech_Engineer]

People care, it's an issue for voters and gun rights/control advocates. That is established fat, and a reason for the variation in laws by state.

Why would you be more afraid of a law abiding citizen open carrying than one who is carrying concealed? All of your points about open carry are based in fear and suspicion of that person using it for unlawful purposes. However, your suspicions apprently don't apply to concealed carry not because it is safer, but simply because you can't see the gun...

Criminals don't open carry in the first place!

So, without a dodge, do you have an answer or not? Why carry openly vs. concealed in a standard SD "jaunt" (no more gun shows or Ted Nugent hikes...)?

If you can't answer it, fine, but to say in the face of an ongoing debate in the courts that nobody cares is either ignorant, or dishonest.

There's nothing to dodge! Given both options, open carry and concealed carry are both personal choices. Open carry apprently illicits more negative reactions, but those reactions are not based in sound logical argument but instead in misunderstanding and emotional discomfort. Just because YOU wouldn't open carry a firearm, doesn't mean open carry altogether should be outlawed.

 

[DanP]

Then talked about how you argued, and the intent of the thread? Here's an English colloquialism: blowing smoke. You're doing it.

Look, this is what you did for 1500+ posts. Blowing something, not sure if smoke.

I don't care if X choose to carry concealed or open. It's his choice. It doesn't phase me. I am not arguing in favor of either. If it bothers you, write a letter to your representatives, asking them to ban weapons or open carry or whatever. I don't care .

Yes, the subject of this thread was OPs question on whatever guns infringe free speech. They dont. It derailed into another thread filled with irrational fear of weapons and how "fearsome" and "dangerous" the ppl who carry open are. Unfortunately.

 

[JaredJames]

Oh come on people, when you see someone you don't know with a gun are you honestly saying you don't see that person as a potential threat to you?

What is illogical or irrational about seeing a person with a gun as a potential threat?

Nobody is saying that everyone who carries a gun is dangerous.

 

[FlexGunship]

Oh come on people, when you see someone you don't know with a gun are you honestly saying you don't see that person as a potential threat to you?

I'm specifically addressing THIS question, right now.

No.

I do not have the knee-jerk reaction you have. I absolutely feel more uneasy when someone walks into a candy store with a fire ax. I mean that. I feel safer at the store when the guy next to me is rockin' a Glock. My experiences with gun owners is positive, not negative.

That person is no more a "potential threat" than a man with a hammer, but the man carrying the hammer around town is suspicious as f*ck! The guy who carries a firearm around town is just a gun owner.

Jared... not everyone shares the same feelings you do on this subject. (EDIT: In the same way that I know a lot of people DO NOT share my irrational fear of bees.)

 

[DanP]

Oh come on people, when you see someone you don't know with a gun are you honestly saying you don't see that person as a potential threat to you?

I don't, Jared. It's the context which may make me warry, but the simple sight of a gun doesn't phase me.

 

[Jimmy Snyder]

the simple sight of a gun doesn't phase me.

How about a phaser?

 

[FlexGunship]

How about a phaser?

 

[DanP]

How about a phaser?

Are you kidding me ? Of course it does :P

[PLAIN]http://i.fanpix.net/images/orig/j/u/jut548bhqb9tb8qt.jpg

 

[nismaratwork]

Look, this is what you did for 1500+ posts. Blowing something, not sure if smoke.

I don't care if X choose to carry concealed or open. It's his choice. It doesn't phase me. I am not arguing in favor of either. If it bothers you, write a letter to your representatives, asking them to ban weapons or open carry or whatever. I don't care .

Yes, the subject of this thread was OPs question on whatever guns infringe free speech. They dont. It derailed into another thread filled with irrational fear of weapons and how "fearsome" and "dangerous" the ppl who carry open are. Unfortunately.

Yeah, except for myself, who owns guns and carries one, mugaliens (same), Flex (non-owner, but supporter), and yes, Jarednjames who is just expressing his view.

You talk so much about how you don't care, but then you keep talking. Show me how much you don't care... don't post!

Mech_Engineer: What kind of... individual... assumes that a random person is law-abiding or not? We're talking about an open display of armaments vs. a closed display, with both being equally effective as a means of self defense. My suspicions DO apply to concealed carry, when I'm able to notice it, as I actually mentioned earlier. You should read more when posting outside of your very range, it would help your accuracy.

Oh, and I have a fond memory of an episode of cops, when this idiot kid had a damned Tec-9 in his pants, and the cop (no shock) spotted it from his patrol car. Anyway, I mentioned how a gun, once noted, in connection with behaviour and other observations is the sum total. Regardless, if I don't know someone, they could be ANYONE... all I know is that they have a gun.

You're more than welcome to bet on the good will of strangers with guns, me, I'll get to know them before I let my guard down. Even then, you always respect the gun unless the slide is back and mechanically locked.

This is basic stuff.

Oh, and "open carry and concealed carry are [NOT ALWAYS] personal choices." as you put it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_carry_in_the_United_States This is a legal issue, and unsettled law at that. In the meantime, if you want to be shot because someone else acts illogically, I'll manage somehow, and be sure that: "...But logically he shouldn't have shot me... *gurgle*" on your tombstone.

 

[nismaratwork]

How about a phaser?

*note: I'd laugh until it was fired to prove it was real. Then I'd probably just try to stay on my feet and obey commands.

 

[FlexGunship]

Are you kidding me ? Of course it does :P

[PLAIN]http://i.fanpix.net/images/orig/j/u/jut548bhqb9tb8qt.jpg[/QUOTE]

Hot.

But...

[URL]http://www.startrek.com/uploads/assets/db_articles/77d9c16ca59e3d2a54e3ea884f92f9591f73a176.jpg[/URL]

 

[nismaratwork]

I'm specifically addressing THIS question, right now.

No.

I do not have the knee-jerk reaction you have. I absolutely feel more uneasy when someone walks into a candy store with a fire ax. I mean that. I feel safer at the store when the guy next to me is rockin' a Glock. My experiences with gun owners is positive, not negative.

That person is no more a "potential threat" than a man with a hammer, but the man carrying the hammer around town is suspicious as f*ck! The guy who carries a firearm around town is just a gun owner.

Jared... not everyone shares the same feelings you do on this subject. (EDIT: In the same way that I know a lot of people DO NOT share my irrational fear of bees.)

OK... once again maybe we're talking past each other here. If someone walked into an urban store with a fire axe, and anything other than a fireman's SUIT... I'd be on my damned toes. The key is probably that you said, "more wary"... well yeah, but again: you're at the movies and you notice that someone whom you've never met is carrying openly, do you take note of that person? If not, why not, and if so, why?

Anyway, you keep making this anti-gun-control argument when it isn't being MADE. I didn't realize that being able to collect all manner of firearms, carry handguns concealed, carry openly at ranges, retreats, hunts, shows and other events (even in states where it's normally BANNED!) impinged on my second amendment right so much! Hell, it isn't enough that we can own an M82 fully scoped?... because I like to vaporize deer from a mile away, or for those rare occasions when I'm under siege by an APC.

We have INCREDIBLE freedom... let's show a little... darned... responsibility and actually follow what is sound tactical doctrine ANYWAY!

 

[DanP]

Hot.

But...

Beat this, Flex man

[PLAIN]http://cyncity.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/2008/04/07/galacticababesgqapril08_2.jpg

 

[nismaratwork]

Beat this, Flex man

Yeah, I'll top that... (no pun! har har) type this into google image: "bullet wound"