Are Modifications Needed for Escape Velocity in Elliptical Orbits?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on whether modifications are needed for calculating escape velocity in the context of elliptical orbits, as opposed to circular orbits. Participants explore the implications of orbital mechanics, energy conservation, and the optimal points for escape in elliptical trajectories.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant notes that escape velocity is derived from conservation of energy and questions if this needs modification for elliptical orbits.
  • Another participant argues that escape velocity depends solely on the distance from the massive body and its mass, suggesting that the orbit shape does not affect the escape velocity calculation.
  • A participant proposes differentiating the escape velocity equation with respect to radius to find the optimal escape point in an elliptical orbit, indicating that it must occur at either the apogee or perigee.
  • One contributor clarifies that escape velocity is a speed and emphasizes that the minimum delta V required to escape is the difference between the current velocity and the escape velocity at a given point.
  • Another participant expresses confusion over their results when attempting to minimize thrust, indicating that their derived expression does not correspond to the expected perigee.
  • A later reply suggests that determining the optimal escape point depends on the definition of "optimal" and references the Oberth effect, implying that the highest velocity is desirable for rockets.
  • One participant challenges the use of the orbital velocity expression, recommending the vis-viva equation and noting that differentiation with respect to radius may not yield useful results without additional constraints.
  • It is suggested that extrema for escape points occur at apofocus and perifocus, but determining which is optimal remains an open question.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on whether the escape velocity formula requires modifications for elliptical orbits. There is no consensus on the optimal escape point, with multiple competing perspectives on how to approach the problem.

Contextual Notes

Participants mention various equations and concepts, such as the vis-viva equation and the orbital equation of motion, but there are unresolved mathematical steps and assumptions regarding the definitions of optimality and the conditions under which escape velocity is calculated.

vikasagartha
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The escape velocity of a satellite circularly orbiting a large body comes from conservation of energy. Are there any modifications that must be made for the escape velocity of an elliptical orbit?

Thanks in advance!
 
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When you look at the formula for escape velocity, you can see that it only depends on the distance from the massive body and that body's mass.
In other words, it doesn't matter what you do around that mass, just where you are.
 
If I trying to find the optimal point for escape in an elliptical orbit, can I just differentiate the standard escape velocity eqn with respect to r? I know it must be either the apogee or the perigee...is there a better approach?
 
Escape velocity is a speed, not a velocity. The easiest way to attain that velocity is for a vehicle to thrust in the direction it is already going. The minimum delta V needed to escape at some point is the difference between the current velocity at that point and the escape velocity at that point. It is this value you want to minimize, not the escape velocity.
 
So I tried doing precisely that, I minimized a 'thrust' but the expression I arrive at doesn't look like the perigee...
ImageUploadedByPhysics Forums1396542421.448070.jpg
 
vikasagartha said:
If I trying to find the optimal point for escape in an elliptical orbit, can I just differentiate the standard escape velocity eqn with respect to r?

That depends on your definition of "optimal". For rockets the optimal point is characterized by the highest velocity:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oberth_effect
 
vikasagartha said:
So I tried doing precisely that, I minimized a 'thrust' but the expression I arrive at doesn't look like the perigee...View attachment 68288
You used the wrong expression for orbital velocity.

A good place to start is the vis-viva equation. Unfortunately, you'll get no joy here if you differentiate the resulting delta V with respect to r. The problem is there's nothing that constrains r in either the vis-viva equation or the escape velocity equation.

You'll need something such as the orbital equation of motion, ##r=\frac{a (1-e^2)}{1-e\cos\theta}##. Now you should get something useful. In particular, you should find that extrema occur at apofocus and perifocus. So now it's just a matter of determining which is best, which is worst.
 

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