Are Phantom Planets Counterbalancing Our Solar System?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of "phantom planets" that may counterbalance the known planets of our solar system, particularly in relation to their positions opposite the Sun. Participants explore the implications of such hypothetical planets on orbital mechanics and gravitational interactions, as well as drawing parallels to subatomic particles.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Exploratory

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question the validity of the notion that planets are counterbalanced by phantom planets, arguing that if such planets existed, they would have been observed by now.
  • Concerns are raised about the stability of orbits for hypothetical phantom planets, with references to gravitational mechanics and the behavior of celestial bodies in a three-body system.
  • One participant draws a comparison between phantom planets and phantom particles, suggesting a conceptual link, although others argue that these ideas are unrelated.
  • There is a discussion about the gravitational forces emitted by the Sun and the implications for the existence of an opposite phantom planet, emphasizing the spherical nature of the Sun.
  • Some participants speculate on the possibility of phantom planets existing further out in the solar system and the dynamics of their gravitational forces, questioning how they would interact with known planets.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of views, with no consensus reached on the existence or implications of phantom planets. Some participants firmly reject the idea, while others entertain speculative scenarios without arriving at a definitive conclusion.

Contextual Notes

The discussion includes various assumptions about gravitational mechanics and orbital stability, which remain unresolved. Participants reference complex interactions without providing detailed mathematical or physical frameworks.

Who May Find This Useful

Individuals interested in theoretical astrophysics, celestial mechanics, and the conceptual exploration of hypothetical celestial bodies may find this discussion relevant.

scott_sieger
Hi guys,

Just a question if anyone has any insight to offer in theh notion that the planets of our solar system are some how counter balanced by "Phantom" plane on their opposite side of the sun?

I heard some where of this? but it was along time ago

If you have what are your thoughts on the ideas?
 
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Uh, what?

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Originally posted by scott_sieger
Hi guys,

Just a question if anyone has any insight to offer in theh notion that the planets of our solar system are some how counter balanced by "Phantom" plane on their opposite side of the sun?

I heard some where of this? but it was along time ago

If you have what are your thoughts on the ideas?

I have also heard this idea, but I do not think it should be given much credence. For example, if the planet Venus had a counterpart on the opposite side of the sun (we can call this other planet Aphrodite) then, when Venus was on the far side of the sun from earth, Aphrodite would be near earth. Likewise for the planet Aries (on the opposite side from Mars). We would have seen them by now.
 


Originally posted by LURCH
We would have seen them by now.

Exactly, we are quite often on the other side of the sun from other planets and we don't see any phantoms.

Not only that, but they would have changed the orbital mechanics of the solar system. And small disturbances (gravitational, impacts)over millions/billions of years would breakup the counterbalancing...orbital velocities would change and one partner would catch up to the other.
 
The orbits of such objects is not stable in a simple three-body system (Sun, planet, phantom planet); so very unlikely to be stable in the real solar system.

The Lagrangian points L4 and L5 are stable in a three-body system; they are 60o ahead of and behind the planet, in the same orbit.

The Trojan asteroids are in orbits around the Jovian stable Lagrangian points, and IIRC a small 'Neptunian Trojan' was recently found. There are also at least three satellites ('moons') of Saturn near Lagrangian points.
 
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hmmm...interesting replies.

The reason I was thinking about this question was that we have so called phantom particles I think some are called "leptids??" and "quarks" as i am totally ignorant of these i just thought i would innocently pose the question that if we have phantom particles we can have a phantom planet.

How the mechanics works is not available at present I assume but then again neither are the phantom particles...if you know what I mean.


A discussion in the theory development room about negative mass lead me to here. if you have a negative mass but invert its centre of attraction so that it is present in the planets dimension then you have a dimensional paradox where the mass is massless and the centre of attraction isn't a centre of attraction...sort of like a reflection in a mirror. The image in the mirror has an impact but at the same time it has no discernable value...( mass)
 
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Originally posted by scott_sieger
if we have phantom particles we can have a phantom planet.
These concepts have no relationship to each other whatsoever. Similarly, they are also not related to The Phantom of the Opera.
 
The subatomic world is a very difference place from what we're familiar with in our everyday experience...the rules are different down there. Not that orbital mechanics are part of our everyday experience, mind you. :wink:
 
The Sun emmits gravitational forces in every direction to every planet in our solar system and some outside of it but according to that conclusion i would think there is no need for a "Phantom" plane on the opposite side of the sun. There really is no opposite side of the sun because the sun is spherical.
 
  • #10
The supposed phantom planet would move around the sun in the same orbit that the Earth does, but 180o away from it. So it would always be "behind the sun" as seen from earth.

But this orbital pattern is proven to be unstable. It could never exist for any long period of time.
 
  • #11
Originally posted by selfAdjoint
The supposed phantom planet would move around the sun in the same orbit that the Earth does, but 180o away from it. So it would always be "behind the sun" as seen from earth.

And that's just the Earth. We would see the phantoms of the other planets if they existed. (e.g., we could see Venus1 and Venus2 at the same time as they orbited the sun faster than the Earth)
 
  • #12
ok, but what if it takes more time for the phantom planets to hold a gravitational force so its further out and just haven't come together yet? is it possible? like planets slowly coming together, like a reunion. what would happen then?
 
  • #13
and for that matter, planets orbit around the sun. some are futher in the solar system and are rotating also, no matter how slow or fast its going we would be able to see that, especially if its that far out and is orbiting. does that make sense?
 
  • #14
and have the scientist known or see if the planets are moving farther away from the sun or are they moving closer. either way it would be dangerous
 
  • #15
Britnee27 welcome to PF, if you look at the dates above people's names you will see that this post is over 8 years old! Most of those members are long gone. If you want to ask a question I suggest starting a new thread.
 

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