Are Pointer States Primitives in Quantum Mechanics?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the nature of pointer states in quantum mechanics, specifically whether they can be considered primitives within frameworks like Quantum Darwinism or the Everett interpretation. Participants explore the implications of these concepts on the classical nature of the universe and the relationship between quantum mechanics and classical observations.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Exploratory

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that if pointer states are primitives, the universe would not exhibit classical behavior without them.
  • Others argue that the orthodox view of quantum mechanics suggests that observations are primitives, not pointer states, raising questions about the foundational assumptions of quantum theory.
  • A participant questions the proof that the classical world is a priori, suggesting the possibility of an Everettian world with classical pointer states influenced by gravitational fields.
  • There is a call for definitions of "pointer states" and "primitives" to facilitate clearer discussion.
  • One participant expresses a lack of background knowledge on the topic, indicating a need for further clarification and responses from others.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not appear to reach consensus, with multiple competing views on the nature of pointer states and their role in quantum mechanics remaining unresolved.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights the dependence on definitions of key terms and the unresolved nature of the relationship between classical and quantum frameworks. There is also an acknowledgment of the potential influence of gravitational fields on the preferred basis.

bluecap
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Someday if there are experiments that can show it.. it's still a possibility that in Quantum Darwinism or Everettian, pointer states are primitives? This means if there are no pointer states. The universe won't be classical at all.

Because there are arguments that they have to conform to orthodox quantum, meaning observations are primitives and not pointer states.. but this is believed simply because Quantum mechanics started that way? Or is there a theorem that pointer states can never be primitive and everything needs to be categorically traditional QM where the classical world is an a priori?
 
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You are using two terms "pointer states" and "primitives" in a specific context, without definition. It is hard to respond under the circumstances.
 
mathman said:
You are using two terms "pointer states" and "primitives" in a specific context, without definition. It is hard to respond under the circumstances.

primitives = basic
pointer states = preferred basis

In Copenhagen, the classical world sets the pointer states (or preferred basis) for the instrument and quantum system.. so it automatically has classical basis like position or momentum

In Everettian, there is no classical pointer states.. so it must be produced.

What I'm asking is what is the proof that the classical world is the a priori. What if we have Everettian world all along with just classical pointer states. Maybe the reason we can't distinguish this by experiments is because the gravitational field is one of the sources of the position preferred basis? But this doesn't prove that classical world is the a priori.. maybe we have Everettian world with classical pointer states set by the gravitational field. Is this possible? I'll share this in lectures so need to know the case. Ty.
 
Hopefully someone else can respond. I have no background fir this material.
 

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