Are some people born with an "intrinsic high IQ"?

[Imparcticle]

Are some people born with an "intrinsic high IQ" (that is, are some people born with a profoundly gifted mind that makes them "natural geniuses) where others are not?

 

[BoulderHead]

I'd have to consult with my box of chocolates before answering.

 

[selfAdjoint]

There are born mathematicians at least. They are observed as toddlers to have a deeper understanding of numbers, shapes, etc. than most adults, and typically do original work in their teens. Examples are Gauss, who discovered the eulidean construction of the seventeen sided regular polygon when he was 17, Galois who discovered group theory at 20, Erdos, who submitted his first original paper to a refereed journal when he was 17, and Ramanujan, who sent a list of original theorems and proofs to Hardy which he had proved in his late teens.

 

[Fliption]

Are some people born with an "intrinsic high IQ" (that is, are some people born with a profoundly gifted mind that makes them "natural geniuses) where others are not?

Looking at this materialistcally, the brain is nothing but a sophisticated computer. The ability for a computer to perform is a result of the quality of both its hardware and software. For me, in this analogy, hardware is genetics and software is developed or learned. It's always seemed obvious to me that the answer to such questions is both nature and nurture.

 

[Dayle Record]

Yes, there are people with genetic disposition to high IQ. Take for instance Maria Vos Savant. Look at her name. It is her family name "From the Savants". There is a familial history of high intelligence of such long standing, that it is the family name. Look at Carl Sagan. His ancestors came from a village in Germany called Sagan. The term sage, or sagan, implies high intelligence. There are families who have this gift. Furthermore, understanding how intelligence is grown, how the mind grows, helps those families facilitate the growth of intelligence in their own offspring. They raise their children intelligently. Look at Kurt Vonnegut/Kurt Vonnegut. I am not smart enough on the spot here, to remember other family names that imply historic high intelligence, give me a month or so...

 

[litghost]

I think saying something like "Is someone born with some # IQ?" is entirely dependent on what an IQ test/measurement is really testing for. From my extremely limited knowledge of this topic I would say that a test that sees how well you can manipulate languages (in a spoken sense), math (excluding proofs), or simple ideas would be something more towards what you are born with. On the other hand moving beyond the base of each of these like truly understanding liteture, or mastering math to the level of expanding it, or creating new ideas from the old. I consider these to be thought and learned and ,while based in the basics, is more what an IQ test should test (abit harder to test for these things). So it really comes down how you define intellengence, and an IQ. The human mind seems to be born with some embeded skills, but what I feel that we value the most comes through experience, and learning (ie after birth).

 

[Imparcticle]

Yes, there are people with genetic disposition to high IQ. Take for instance Maria Vos Savant. Look at her name. It is her family name "From the Savants". There is a familial history of high intelligence of such long standing, that it is the family name. Look at Carl Sagan. His ancestors came from a village in Germany called Sagan. The term sage, or sagan, implies high intelligence. There are families who have this gift. Furthermore, understanding how intelligence is grown, how the mind grows, helps those families facilitate the growth of intelligence in their own offspring. They raise their children intelligently. Look at Kurt Vonnegut/Kurt Vonnegut. I am not smart enough on the spot here, to remember other family names that imply historic high intelligence, give me a month or so...

Are you therefore concluding that intellligence is dependent on a given family name?? I must disagree with you if that is the case.

 

[selfAdjoint]

He's saying that high intelligence can run in families, which it can; Spearman's g is 70% or so heritable. Family names in the German region were often not assigned until the 18th century, so in a few cases they could be based on such a personal trait. Consider Chuck Yeager, the aviator, noted for his exceptionally keen eyesight. His family name is from the German word Jaeger, meaning huntsman, a profession that requires keen eyesight.

Nobody is saying name determines destiny, but in a few cases they can be significant. It doesn't work in the English area because family names go back further there. You don't look for the typical Smith to be extra strong!

 

[Janitor]

My family name is Dummkopf.

Chess playing seems to come naturally to a gifted few at a young age. Bobby Fischer is an obvious example. I would be interested to hear how chess phenoms do in other pursuits. I know that world champions in chess tend to be on the young side of 50, so the playing ability of the phenoms does taper off with age.

 

[Rader]

Chess playing seems to come naturally to a gifted few at a young age. Bobby Fischer is an obvious example. I would be interested to hear how chess phenoms do in other pursuits. I know that world champions in chess tend to be on the young side of 50, so the playing ability of the phenoms does taper off with age.

Dummkopf Do you know what that means in German?

 

[cragwolf]

I come from a family of peasants who aren't overly furnished in the brains department. Nothing changed with me, except I got an education.

 

[Janitor]

Dummkopf Do you know what that means in German? - Rader

Pa always said it meant "noble and virtuous," but I never really investigated the matter.

 

[Pattielli]

Pa always said it meant "noble and virtuous," but I never really investigated the matter.

 

[Rader]

Pa always said it meant "noble and virtuous," but I never really investigated the matter.

Your Pa was probably right. We should all have that name.

 

[loseyourname]

My IQ is at least 40 points higher than anyone I know of in my family. I wonder why that is. I guess I better marry someone whose entire family is smart.

 

[FoxNax]

Different minds develope differently and there are those that are born with the natural ability for numbers and what not. My science teacher once said that there are people like that and that some of those people tend to have a sort of autistic feel to them, meaning they can be slightly disconnected from society or they live in their own fantasy world for half their life.
For some reason, I've found mathematics quite easy and I've also found myself to be slightly disconnected from the people around me, prefering to sit in my room at my computer than do most other things.

 

[Evo]

Imparticle, intelligence does run in families to some extent, which to me means that they have more potential to learn and comprehend, but it's not a guarantee of anything, certainly not success.

My little sister's ex-boyfriend comes from a very intelligent family, both of his parents are University professors, he has a degree in Astrophysics and delivers pizza for a living now and has no desire to do anything else.

 

[Zantra]

I agree intelligence is no indicator of success. Just look at the Mensa members

/snicker

 

[Imparcticle]

Mensa numbers?

 

[Dayle Record]

The bell curve for intelligence, echoes the bell curve for normal behavior. So at the very low end of the intelligence curve, normal behavior deviates. At the high end of the bell curve for intelligence, the curve for normal behaviour is somewhat over the top. "If you are so smart, why aren't you rich?", well, value systems start to warp somewhere near the speed of light. Until we have a world where we all may live in dignity, and relative safety the bell curve for every value becomes the horrific knot we know as life on Earth. Some of the smartest people I know, relish very simple things. It might be that they grasp more of infinity per moment, than those whom ambition and competition rule. They move more slowly through the data. So, some people are more linear, and others more omnidirectional. I think the quantity is the same, but the view is very different.

 

[mikesvenson]

"If you are so smart, why aren't you rich. Some of the smartest people I know, relish very simple things. It might be that they grasp more of infinity per moment, than those whom ambition and competition rule. They move more slowly through the data. So, some people are more linear, and others more omnidirectional. I think the quantity is the same, but the view is very different.

it feels good to read something like this on here. I'm 23 years old, and have been obsessively interested in skateboarding since i discovered it at age 5. Its been the only activity that can keep my interest. Just me and my creativity expressed through inventing combinations of tricks. No competition, no rules. I take my time with it, as i strive to perfect every last minute detail of movement. The possibilites are infinite. I can manipulate the board in any flipping, spinning, etc, movement i can imagine. I care less about everything else in the world (except family and friends of course). if I could make enough money doing this to barely scratch by, then that's all i would do. I have considered many times quiting my jobs and just traveling around the world skating, jumping from friends house, to friends house. I have recently become partially obsessed with physics and philosophy. I will eventually complete a phD in a related field and i think i can create a better understanding of things somehow.
The fact that i have been labeled with autism i feel has had a significant influence on my behavioral history regarding these things.

 

[Stockman]

I'd have to consult with my box of chocolates before answering.

Ahaha. good.

Some people are really good at math but their musicianship is terrible, I guess that you could be intelligence in many different ways.

 

[Tigers2B1]

Ahaha. good.

Some people are really good at math but their musicianship is terrible, I guess that you could be intelligence in many different ways.

Wouldn't "musicianship" be considered more of a talent rather than an aspect of intelligence / cognitive ability?

 

[selfAdjoint]

Well isn't math "ability" a talent? BTW, math talent and musical talent are significantly correlated.

 

[Tigers2B1]

Well isn't math "ability" a talent?

Numerical reasoning, as it is measured in tests of cognitive ability, doesn't test your ability to do math as I understand - but your ability to reason with numbers.

BTW, math talent and musical talent are significantly correlated.

If these "talents" are "significantly correlated" that would seem to argue against their being mere talents and argue for their being innate traits. Unless, of course, there is also a significant correlation between math and mucical interests --

 

[selfAdjoint]

Maybe we use words differently. I use "talent" for innate aptitude, and "skill" for learned behavior. People who have a talent for math, in the sense that they pick it up easily and enjoy challenging math activities like Math Counts, are more than randomly likely to also play a musical instrument.

 

[force5]

Curiosity?

O.K. folks; I've got one for you.

I have four children ranging in age from 22 thru 41. IQ test results indicate scores between 127-155 for these kids. Not even one of them wanted to go to college. They are all responsible adults, with the possible exception of my 22 year old son. He by the way has the 155 IQ and had numerous scolarship offers. My 24 year old daughter has the lowest IQ of the bunch, but, the most common sense by far.

The one ingredient that seems to be missing in all four kids is any measurable degree of curiosity. They all seem to be perfectly content just dealing with things on a day to day basis. So there must be other facters that come into play in order for ones potential to translate into a desire to search for answers.

So here's my Questions;

1) Can you teach someone to be curious?
2) How does ambition affect the equation?
3) What would cause someone to become an under achiever?
4) Is curiosity a prerequisite for creativity.
5) Can you think of other pertinent factors?


I recall reading an article a few years ago pertaining to a substantial increase in the number of young children with exceptional abilities. A study was done in an attempt to find some connection or reason for this increase. After many months of research, they only found two common traits for most of the kids. First, they were all raised in an enviorment that gave them a lot of freedom to explore. Second, a very large percentage had a dominant right brain.

Thanks for any comments or answers.