Are there any almost irrational numbers that have deceived mathematicians?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of numbers that may appear irrational but are actually rational upon further examination. Participants explore the idea of numbers that have deceived mathematicians regarding their rationality, including both those that were once thought to be irrational and those that exhibit deceptive decimal expansions.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants inquire whether there are rational numbers that seem irrational at first glance but eventually reveal a repeating sequence in their decimal expansion.
  • One participant suggests that a number could have a decimal expansion identical to π for a significant number of digits before repeating, raising the question of whether it would be considered "looking irrational."
  • Another participant clarifies that they are interested in numbers that were conjectured to be irrational but later proven to be rational, as well as the opposite scenario.
  • There is mention of the Euler-Mascheroni constant, which is believed to be irrational but remains unproven, as a potential example of a number that could be rational.
  • A historical example is provided regarding the square root of 2, which was once believed to be rational before it was proven to be irrational.
  • Participants discuss the concept of "almost-integers," which are numbers very close to integers, as potentially relevant to the topic.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying interpretations of what constitutes a number that "looks irrational." There is no consensus on specific examples, and the discussion remains open-ended regarding the existence of such numbers.

Contextual Notes

Some limitations include the ambiguity in defining what it means for a number to "look irrational" and the reliance on conjectures about certain constants like the Euler-Mascheroni constant, which has not been proven to be irrational.

guysensei1
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Does any known rational number look irrational at first glance but when calculated to 100s or 1000s of digits actually resolve into a repeating sequence? Have they deceived mathematicians?
 
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What do you mean by "look irrational"? Obviously, there exist a number whose decimal expansion is identical to [itex]\pi[/itex] for the first, say, 10 million decimal places, then is just "5"s after that. That is a rational number. Would you say it "looks irrational"?
 
I think what he means, is there a number which appears irrational, but then after a couple hundred or thousand digits it repeats, meaning it isn't actually irrational.

For example if after 14trillion digits ##\pi## "resets" and started ##14159...## again. Which of course it doesn't but this is what the OP means I think.
 
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What I meant to say was:

Are there any numbers that mathematicians thought were irrational for some time then was proven rational? And as an expansion, what about the converse?
 
guysensei1 said:
Does any known rational number look irrational at first glance but when calculated to 100s or 1000s of digits actually resolve into a repeating sequence? Have they deceived mathematicians?

We don't look at the decimal representation of a number to decide if it is rational or not, we prove that there are no integers a and b such that a/b is equal to the number.

For example: http://www.math.utah.edu/~pa/math/q1.html
 
I think guysensei1 is thinking about numbers that aren't artificially constructed for the purpose of "looking" irrational (like the example with pi's first 10^6 digits followed by 5's), but rather for 'natural' examples, where a given number was conjectured to be irrational by most mathematicians until someone proved it was in fact rational.

The Euler-Mascheroni constant is believed to be irrational, but no one has managed to prove this yet. If it turns out to be rational, this would be a perfect example. In any case, I believe a whole bunch of digits have been computed without any periodic pattern revealed yet.

A trivial example of the converse would be the square root of 2, since before the proof that it was irrational, Greek mathematicians believed every length could be expressed in terms of integer ratios. You could also look up "almost-integer", which give a lot of examples for numbers that are very close to integers:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Almost_integer

and another relevant link: http://xkcd.com/1047/
 
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