Are There Images of Phobos or Deimos Taken from Mars' Surface?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the possibility of capturing images of Mars' moons, Phobos and Deimos, from the surface of Mars, particularly during daylight. Participants explore the visibility of these moons, the capabilities of Mars rovers, and the characteristics of the Martian atmosphere.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants express curiosity about whether Mars rovers have captured images of Phobos or Deimos from the Martian surface.
  • It is noted that Phobos and Deimos are small moons, with Phobos being less than 20 miles in diameter, leading to the belief that they would appear as points of light rather than discernible objects.
  • One participant mentions that the HiRISE camera on the Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter has taken images of Phobos, suggesting that surface rovers may not have the capability to capture similar images.
  • There is a discussion about the angular size of Phobos as seen from Mars, with some participants suggesting it could be visible under certain conditions, while others argue it would appear very small and likely not visible to the naked eye.
  • Participants discuss the visual magnitude of Phobos, with some stating it could be bright enough to see during the day, while others express skepticism about its visibility due to atmospheric conditions and its albedo.
  • One participant shares a visual reference comparing the apparent size of Phobos from Mars to the Moon from Earth, indicating that its proximity contributes to its apparent size.
  • There are mentions of the Martian atmosphere potentially obscuring visibility and the limitations of rover camera equipment, which may not be designed for high-resolution imaging of distant objects.
  • Some participants share links to images and resources related to Phobos and Deimos, including a video compilation of images taken by the Mars rover.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on whether Phobos or Deimos can be seen with the naked eye from the Martian surface during the day. There are competing views regarding their visibility, the effectiveness of rover cameras, and the impact of atmospheric conditions.

Contextual Notes

There are unresolved questions regarding the limitations of rover imaging capabilities, the effects of the Martian atmosphere on visibility, and the specific conditions under which Phobos might be seen from the surface.

manofthehill@
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Hi.
I've been searching the internet for images that the Mars rovers may have taken of either Phobos or Deimos from the surface of Mars, preferable in the daylight. I'm just curious to see that. I would think that the astronomers would have tried to capture such a sight.

All I've found are time-lapsed images of those bodies passing "in front" of the sun.

Any information or links would be appreciated. Thanks!
-Chris H.
 
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Phobos and Deimos are itty-bitty moons (less than 20mi in diameter). They will look like nothing more than stars in Mars' sky.
 
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Thanks for the reply. Good to know!
-Chris H.
 
I need to hit refresh more often. I was thanking Dave C. But thanks "Touch" for the links. The consensus seems to be that there is no "naked" eye phenomenon with the Mars moons, as we (are fortunate to) have here on earth.

So, you can tell I'm not a scientist, but I guess I wondered if even though Phobos and Deimos were small, they might be close enough to see. I guess not! :)

I do appreciate the replies & links. This is very good information for me, nonetheless.
-Chris H.
 
The consensus seems to be that there is no "naked" eye phenomenon with the Mars moons, as we (are fortunate to) have here on earth.
No, Phobos has an angular diameter of up to 0,2°, as seen from Mars. Our moon -seen from earth- is merely 2.5 times bigger (0.5°) in one dimension. Phobos should be easily visible for LGM.
 
Ich said:
No, Phobos has an angular diameter of up to 0,2°, as seen from Mars. Our moon -seen from earth- is merely 2.5 times bigger (0.5°) in one dimension. Phobos should be easily visible for LGM.
Yes but visible from the surface as little more than a point. Especially since I doubt any of the landing craft have telescopic equipment. It's likely more wide-angle.
 
Glad to hear additional comments, Ich & Dave.

So, Phobos would basically appear as a grain of rice held at arm's length? And that's if the atmosphere didn't obscure it too much, I suppose?

Good point about the camera equipment, too. I'm sure that those robots are using wide angle lenses to get all the geographic features.

I guess I'm just curious: can one stand on the Martian surface and see Phobos with the naked eye during the day?
 
  • #10
manofthehill@ said:
I guess I'm just curious: can one stand on the Martian surface and see Phobos with the naked eye during the day?
Well, it's albedo is ~.06 which is somewhere between fresh ashphalt and charcoal so it wouldn't exactly shine like Venus.

OTOH, it makes an orbit three times a day, so it would almost move visibly (at least if you saw it against a background of stars).

I would guess it would be visible at dawn and dusk as a very dim star-like point. But I'm just guessing.
 
  • #11
Phobos' magnitude (from the German Wikipedia) is given as ~-8, which should be pretty bright at dawn.
I don't think that the rover's angular resolution is a problem, the transit pictures show otherwise. Maybe they need a brighter source and/or the possibility to track phobos during exposure.
 
  • #12
For a visual reference, here's how Phobos woud appear in size as seen from the surface of Mars, compared to a full Moon as seen from Earth.

http://home.earthlink.net/~parvey/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/phobos_moon.jpg
 
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  • #13
Janus said:
For a visual reference, here's how Phobos woud appear in size as seen from the surface of Mars, compared to a full Moon as seen from Earth.

http://home.earthlink.net/~parvey/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/phobos_moon.jpg
Really? That's significant!
 
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  • #14
manofthehill@ said:
Glad to hear additional comments, Ich & Dave.



I guess I'm just curious: can one stand on the Martian surface and see Phobos with the naked eye during the day?

During "full moon" Phobos has a visual magnitude of about -9. Venus, at its brightest, has a magnitude of about 1/2 of that. Since Venus, at its brightest, can be seen during daylight hours on the Earth Phobos should be visible, at times, during Martian daylight even though it won't be full at those times.
 
  • #15
DaveC426913 said:
Really? That's significant!
I didn't realize until seeing this thread and googling: Phobos orbits Mars at ~9,400 km from the center of Mars, whereas our moon's is 384,000 km. So Phobos looks so big because it is so close.
 
  • #16
Hi all.
Clearly, we've identified an item for the next Mars mission wish list.

I first thought about this when I was thinking about whether the Martian atmosphere was too "hazy" to see very good starscapes, etc. and how crazy that would be from its high altitudes to see many, many stars against a very curved horizon (due to its much smaller diameter than Earth).

Than I saw "Watchmen" which depicted some activities on Mars, and they showed a moon (it was Phobos) in the sky. I was then curious if you could actually see it that well, and if you could see it in the daytime.

Anyway, it's all very fascinating. Mars seems to be even cooler now than it did in the 70s!
 
  • #17
Janus said:
During "full moon" Phobos has a visual magnitude of about -9. Venus, at its brightest, has a magnitude of about 1/2 of that.
Magnitude is the total flux of course - so Phobos might not be all that visible if it is the brightness of Venus spread over 1/5 of the area of the moon
 
  • #18
Here is an image I found online. I'm not sure what it is. It doesn't appear in the forum I found it on though. It appears to be the Mars rover taking pictures of both demos and phobos on various times they are both in the same part of the sky. Then later someone came put them in together to make it look like a continuous video. But if that's the case you'd expect there to be more of these.

[PLAIN]http://www.muk.uni-hannover.de/~theusner/mars/2P_SOL585_Phobos_Deimos.gif
Here is the forum that google brought up with it even though i didn't see it on the page. There are other pics that are interesting. It's about astronomy from mars
http://www.space.com/common/forums/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=4673&start=80
 
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  • #20
helium73 said:
It doesn't appear in the forum I found it on though.
:confused:

If it isn't where it is, where is it?
 

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