Are there limitations to detecting small objects using sound and light?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the limitations of detecting small objects using sound and light, exploring the relationship between wavelength, resolution, and detection capabilities. It touches on theoretical aspects, practical implications, and examples from nature and astronomy.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that the least detectable size of an object by bats is related to the wavelength of sound, specifically λ/2, and question whether this is tied to wave interference or other phenomena.
  • One participant explains that the resolution of light waves is influenced by interference, with larger telescopes achieving better angular resolution due to increased wave convergence.
  • Another participant distinguishes between 'detecting' and 'resolving', noting that detection depends on the signal-to-noise ratio rather than wavelength, and that detection of subresolution objects does not provide information about their size or shape.
  • An example is provided regarding the resolution of stars, highlighting that while the naked eye can resolve only a limited number of stars, many more can be detected under good conditions.
  • A participant discusses the capabilities of bats, emphasizing their ability to deduce information about targets without high-resolution sonar images, and how diffraction limits affect the ability to distinguish between multiple objects.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the relationship between detection and resolution, with some emphasizing the role of wavelength and others focusing on signal-to-noise ratios. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the implications of these factors on detection capabilities.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the dependence on definitions of detection and resolution, as well as the potential for confusion between the two concepts. The discussion also highlights the complexity of interpreting signals from small objects.

nickek
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Hi!
In a book, there is stated that the least detectable object by a bat is when the object is λ/2 of the sound wavelength emitted by the bat. I know there is resolution criteria for light microscopes too, which concerns the wavelength of the light.

My question is: Are these criteria about the phenomena of interference of waves or something else? Or maybe it is possible to detect the objects smaller than this size, but we can not get any information about size or form from them if the wavelength is too long?
 
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nickek said:
<snip>My question is: Are these criteria about the phenomena of interference of waves or something else? Or maybe it is possible to detect the objects smaller than this size, but we can not get any information about size or form from them if the wavelength is too long?

There's at least one important difference between 'detecting' and 'resolving'- while 'resolving' does involve the wavelength of light (or sound), 'detecting' does not- detection only depends on the signal-to-noise ratio, which can be quite high even for subresolution objects. Also, it is true that detection of a subresolution object does not provide any information about the size/shape/etc. of the object.
 
One good example is stars. Naked eye resolution is about 1 arc minute (60 arc minutes = 1 degree) so we can only resolve one star (the sun at ~30 arc minutes) but there are thousands of stars we can detect given reasonably dark skies (good SNR).
 
Thanks for answers, everyone. Now I have a starting point for curious students asking about this task.
 
Bats have a significant amount of brain power and they can deduce a lot about what their target is without needing a high resolution sonar image. They can detect a target and know its distance. The strength of the return signal is a good indication of size because the reflectivity of their prey species will be much of a muchness (unlike the range of brightnesses of stars, for instance). They can then go closer and 'investigate' - unlike astronomers with their stars.

Diffraction (resolution) limits, optical and sonar are a bigger problem when it comes to deciding whether it's one or two objects you are looking at. The eye can see many points of light up in the night sky which are, in fact two or more bright objects.
 
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