Are thermalized neutrinos stable at temperatures their rest energy?

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the stability of thermalized neutrinos at temperatures near their rest energy, particularly in the context of the last scattering surface (LSS) and the implications of neutrino mass on energy density. Participants explore theoretical aspects, implications for cosmology, and the behavior of neutrinos under varying conditions.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants argue that neutrinos, due to their low interaction cross section, may exhibit stability at high temperatures, questioning whether this stability is intrinsic to their nature as leptons.
  • One participant posits that the electron neutrino is stable because it is the lightest neutrino and cannot decay due to lepton number conservation, while others suggest that mu and tau neutrinos could theoretically decay into lighter neutrinos.
  • Another participant counters that decays should be considered in terms of mass eigenstates rather than flavor eigenstates, asserting that the lightest neutrino is stable and that heavier neutrinos can only decay under specific conditions.
  • Concerns are raised about the implications of neutrino mass on total energy density at the LSS, suggesting that if neutrino mass is significant, it could lead to discrepancies in energy density ratios.
  • One participant mentions the potential for a mix of hot and cold dark matter at the LSS, indicating that the effects of neutrino mass could differ based on the hierarchy of neutrino masses.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the stability of neutrinos and the implications of their mass. There is no consensus on whether neutrinos are intrinsically stable or how their mass affects energy density at the LSS.

Contextual Notes

Discussions include assumptions about neutrino interactions, the role of lepton number conservation, and the implications of mass eigenstates versus flavor eigenstates. The relationship between neutrino mass and energy density ratios remains unresolved.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to those studying cosmology, particle physics, and the behavior of neutrinos in high-energy environments.

BillSaltLake
Gold Member
Messages
183
Reaction score
0
At the last scattering surface (LSS), the energy density of neutrinos is argued to be ~0.68 of the energy density of blackbody photons, based on a thermodynamic equilibrium argument. This is also required to obtain the correct total energy density for stable expansion. At that time, the average BB photon energy (2.7kT) was ~0.7 ev with the neutrino energy a little lower. If neutrinos have mass, there is evidence that the combined mass of the 3 varieties is < 0.3 eV.
I believe that particles with a significant interaction cross section are unstable (or exist in reduced numbers) at temperatures much higher than the energy eqivalent of their rest mass. Because of the low cross section of neutrinos, will this heat-instability effect not reduce the ~0.68 factor, or are neutrinos intrinsically stable with heat simply because they're leptons?
 
Space news on Phys.org
BillSaltLake said:
At the last scattering surface (LSS), the energy density of neutrinos is argued to be ~0.68 of the energy density of blackbody photons, based on a thermodynamic equilibrium argument. This is also required to obtain the correct total energy density for stable expansion. At that time, the average BB photon energy (2.7kT) was ~0.7 ev with the neutrino energy a little lower. If neutrinos have mass, there is evidence that the combined mass of the 3 varieties is < 0.3 eV.
I believe that particles with a significant interaction cross section are unstable (or exist in reduced numbers) at temperatures much higher than the energy eqivalent of their rest mass. Because of the low cross section of neutrinos, will this heat-instability effect not reduce the ~0.68 factor, or are neutrinos intrinsically stable with heat simply because they're leptons?
I'm not sure why you'd think they would be unstable. They pretty much can't be. My argument goes like this:

First, consider the electron neutrino. This is necessarily stable because it is (most likely) the lightest neutrino, and thus the lightest particle with lepton number = 1. It just can't decay because lepton number is conserved and so there's nothing lighter to decay into.

One might, at first, think the mu and tau neutrinos may potentially decay. But they could only decay into lighter neutrinos. This is because they don't interact with photons (having no charge), and because those are the only lighter particles around. But I don't think this can work due to neutrino oscillation. My argument starts with the example of a mu neutrino decaying into two electron neutrinos and an electron anti-neutrino. Here you have three neutrinos where before you had just one. This becomes a problem when you take into account neutrino oscillations, because now these three new neutrinos can oscillate back into mu neutrinos and decay again! So a universe where neutrinos both oscillate and decay into one another would also be a universe where neutrinos continue to multiply through division after division, producing a massive violation of conservation of energy. I just don't think that's possible. From this argument, I suspect that if you delved deeply into the details of the standard model, the fact that neutrinos don't decay would leap out clear as day. But my specific knowledge of the standard model isn't good enough to say for certain.
 
This is not the way to think about it.

For decays, you need to think about mass eigenstates, not flavor eigenstates. In the SM, the lightest neutrino, nu_1, being the lightest fermion, is absolutely stable. The heavier ones n_2 and n_3 can decay only if they are at least three times as heavy as nu_1, and decay via your three neutrino mode. A world where nu_3 weighs about 0.05 eV and the other two are much lighter is compatible with experiment.

However, the lifetime of such a neutrino would be ~1033 years.
 
Thanks. The flip side of this type of question concerns the effect of any neutrino mass on the total neutrino energy density. At the LSS, the average neutrino temperature was ~2150K, so 3/2(kT) = 0.28eV. If the average mass were as high as .05 eV, there could be a discrepancy.
Equilibrium was established much earlier than the LSS. In early times, ρneuρhot = 0.68 and both of the ρ scale as 1/a4. If mass becomes significant, ρ decreases more slowly, so that at the LSS, we might expect ρneuρhot > 0.68, which causes ρtotal to be too high unless the baryon:photon ratio is adjusted downward. Are there any papers that discuss this subject?
 
I am not an expert, but such a mass spectrum would give a mix of hot and cold dark matter at the LSS, a mix that would be different for the normal and neutrino hierarchies. Since that's still an open question, I can only assume that the observables from both models are too close for us to tell them apart.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 13 ·
Replies
13
Views
7K
  • · Replies 36 ·
2
Replies
36
Views
5K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
2K
  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
5K
  • · Replies 18 ·
Replies
18
Views
2K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
3K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
3K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
3K