Are neutrinos definitely ruled out as Dark Matter?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the role of neutrinos as potential candidates for dark matter, exploring their properties, interactions, and implications for cosmology. Participants examine theoretical and observational aspects, including the relativistic nature of neutrinos and their contributions to energy density in the universe.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Exploratory

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants argue that ordinary Standard Model neutrinos have mass and weak interactions, but are not satisfactory dark matter candidates due to their relativistic nature, which contrasts with the clumpy distribution of dark matter.
  • There is a suggestion that if a mechanism existed to generate "cold" neutrinos, it could be explored, although this would require abandoning certain thermodynamic principles.
  • Participants discuss the approximate density of primordial neutrinos and their negligible contribution to the total energy density, with some questioning whether this knowledge is theoretical or experimentally confirmed.
  • A comparison is made between neutrinos and axions, with axion dark matter theory proposing mechanisms for generating cold dark matter without violating thermodynamics.
  • Some participants speculate on the potential for detecting supercooled neutrinos and the challenges associated with such detection.
  • There is a discussion about the density of neutrinos near astrophysical sources and whether this could lead to significant clumping, with differing views on the implications of such density variations.
  • Questions are raised about the current bounds on the rest mass of neutrinos, with references to relevant literature for further detail.
  • Some participants express skepticism about neutrinos being considered WIMPs (Weakly Interacting Massive Particles), noting that their mass range would need to be around 100 GeV, which raises questions about feasibility.
  • Others counter that the mass of dark matter particles is less critical than their average velocity in the early universe, suggesting that particles with high mass could still fulfill the role of dark matter if their velocities are appropriately low.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants exhibit a range of views on the viability of neutrinos as dark matter candidates, with no consensus reached. Some agree on the theoretical limitations of neutrinos, while others propose alternative mechanisms or challenge existing assumptions.

Contextual Notes

Discussions include references to theoretical predictions and experimental confirmations, but the limitations of current knowledge and the dependence on specific models are acknowledged. The conversation also highlights the unresolved nature of certain claims regarding neutrino properties and their implications for dark matter.

  • #31
What is the net lepton number of the universe?
 
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  • #32
Vanadium 50 said:
I think it's of order a percent, so we expect n_f = 3.03 or so for 3 families of neutrinos. The neutrino density is ~100/flavor/cm^3, and taking 0.2 eV for the sum of the neutrino masses (a guess on the high side), that means its 20 eV/cm^3. The dark matter density is around 600 MeV/cm^3, so to make neutrinos work, you need to increase their density by 30 million. Not only does this impose, as you say, a serious production problem, even second order effects get large.
As I said, the bound on the number of neutrino species from BBN comes from the effect on extra relativistic degrees of freedom affecting the expansion rate during BBN. If there were a non-relativistic component of neutrinos during BBN, they would not contribute to N_eff. Now there are several problems with having such a component, not only would you have to produce it - it would somehow have to avoid coming into thermal equilibrium (neutrinos do not freeze out until around 2 MeV).
 
  • #33
Vanadium 50 said:
The neutrino density is ~100/flavor/cm^3, and taking 0.2 eV for the sum of the neutrino masses (a guess on the high side), that means its 20 eV/cm^3. The dark matter density is around 600 MeV/cm^3, so to make neutrinos work, you need to increase their density by 30 million. Not only does this impose, as you say, a serious production problem, even second order effects get large.
So if I understand this right, SM neutrinos are ruled out as a significant contributor for the observed effects of dark matter, leaving the hypothetical right-handed (sterile) neutrino, which is thought to have an extreme mass range:

The Phenomenology of Right Handed Neutrinos
Neutrino dark matter candidate in fourth generation scenarios
 
  • #34
stoomart said:
So if I understand this right, SM neutrinos are ruled out as a significant contributor for the observed effects of dark matter, leaving the hypothetical right-handed (sterile) neutrino, which is thought to have an extreme mass range:

The Phenomenology of Right Handed Neutrinos
Neutrino dark matter candidate in fourth generation scenarios

Additional fermion singlets can essentially have masses anywhere within an extremely large mass range - from tiny masses that effectively make neutrinos pseudo-Dirac particles to the typical high mass implementations of the seesaw mechanism. The phenomenology is quite rich in many parts of the mass range. With respect to dark matter, it is possible that a sterile neutrino around the keV range could be a significant dark matter contributor. It depends a lot on the sterile-active mixing and the right-handed masses. Other mass ranges gives different phenomenology.
 
  • #35
stoomart said:
So if I understand this right, SM neutrinos are ruled out as a significant contributor for the observed effects of dark matter

Strictly speaking, SM neutrinos are ruled out in general. Meaning, we know that real neutrinos have mass, and thus they are not SM neutrinos. SM needs to be extended to match neutrino mass observations. This almost always adds new neutrino-like particles.

If you meant "left-handed neutrinos are ruled out as DM", then yes, they are ruled out by cosmological data.
 
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  • #36
nikkkom said:
This almost always adds new neutrino-like particles.
I think "almost always" is too strong to use here. There is no actual need to introduce new standard model singlet fermions. You can just as well add an SU(2) triplet scalar that effectively takes a small vev. This is the type-II seesaw mechanism. Essentially, what new states you need to add would typically depend on how you open the Weinberg operator at higher energies.
 
  • #37
Orodruin said:
I think "almost always" is too strong to use here. There is no actual need to introduce new standard model singlet fermions.

Yes. That's why I used "almost always" phrase, not "always".
 

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