Are These Properties of Zero Correct?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the properties of zero, including its role in arithmetic operations, exponentiation, and square roots. Participants explore various mathematical concepts related to zero, such as division by zero and the implications of raising numbers to the zero power. The scope includes theoretical and conceptual clarifications relevant to mathematics education.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Homework-related

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants affirm that x + 0 = x and x - 0 = x are definitions of zero, while others elaborate on the implications of these properties.
  • There is a discussion about x(0) = 0, with some clarifying that it refers to multiplication, while confusion arises regarding the expression x(0) = undefined, which is corrected to x/0.
  • Participants debate the meaning of division by zero, with some asserting it is undefined and others suggesting it could be considered in specific mathematical contexts, such as vector spaces.
  • Regarding x^0, it is proposed that if x is not zero, then x^0 = 1, while 0^0 is described as undefined, leading to a discussion about the reconciliation of these rules.
  • The square root of 0 is stated to be 0, with some participants expressing satisfaction with this explanation.
  • One participant expresses a desire for more detailed explanations, indicating a perceived lack of clarity in their class materials.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on basic properties of zero, such as x + 0 = x and the square root of 0 being 0. However, there is disagreement regarding the implications and interpretations of division by zero and the value of 0^0, indicating multiple competing views remain.

Contextual Notes

Some statements made by participants depend on specific definitions and contexts, such as the distinction between real numbers and vector spaces, which may not be universally applicable. The discussion also reflects varying levels of familiarity with mathematical concepts among participants.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be useful for students seeking clarification on the properties of zero, educators looking for insights into common misconceptions, and anyone interested in foundational mathematics concepts.

bballwaterboy
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x + 0 = x
x - 0 = x

x(0) = 0
x(0) = undefined ...is this how you call it or is it no solution?

x^0 = ? What is x raised to the zero power?
square root of 0 = ? Not sure about this one either.

If anyone knows of any other properties of zero I'm leaving out, please feel free to post them. It's been over a year since I last did this stuff and have to know it all for my class. I'm already a bit behind, so having to spend my own personal time catching up with the basics. Thanks for your help.
 
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bballwaterboy said:
x + 0 = x
x - 0 = x
Yes, the first is pretty much the definition of "zero" and the second follows from the first.

x(0) = 0
If you mean "x times 0", yes, that is true. It can be show by considering that since a+ 0= 0 (above) the b(a+ 0)= ba+ b0= ba

x(0) = undefined ...is this how you call it or is it no solution?
? This is the same as above! Did you mean "x/0"? If x itself is non-zero, then, yes, it is "undefined". I would not say "no solution" because I see no problem to be solved.

Note that I said "if x itself is non-zero". If x= 0, we say that "0/0" is "undetermined". We still "can't divide by 0" but the difference is that saying that a/0= b is the same as saying that a= b0= 0. If a is not 0 that is not true for any b. If a= 0 then it is true for all b. In either case, we cannot determine a specific value for b but the reason is different.

x^0 = ? What is x raised to the zero power?
If x is not 0, then x^0= 1. For positive integer m and n, it is easy to show that x^(m+ n)= x^m x^n. If we want to extend that to 0, we must have x^(m+0)= x^m= x^mx^0 so must have x^0= 1. If x= 0, so we have 0^0, that is, again, "undefined". We have two basic rules: x^0= 1 for x non-zero and 0^x= 0 for x non-zero. At x= 0 those two cannot be reconciled.

square root of 0 = ? Not sure about this one either.
Nothing special about that. The square root of 0 is 0 because 0^2= 0(0)= 0.

If anyone knows of any other properties of zero I'm leaving out, please feel free to post them. It's been over a year since I last did this stuff and have to know it all for my class. I'm already a bit behind, so having to spend my own personal time catching up with the basics. Thanks for your help.
 
HallsofIvy said:
? This is the same as above! Did you mean "x/0"? If x itself is non-zero, then, yes, it is "undefined". I would not say "no solution" because I see no problem to be solved.

Ooops! Yes! That was supposed to be x divided by 0. Must have been a typo slip. Thanks!

But wait. Quick question. You say it could be solved? How's that? How do you divide by zero?
 
HallsofIvy said:
If x is not 0, then x^0= 1. For positive integer m and n, it is easy to show that x^(m+ n)= x^m x^n. If we want to extend that to 0, we must have x^(m+0)= x^m= x^mx^0 so must have x^0= 1. If x= 0, so we have 0^0, that is, again, "undefined". We have two basic rules: x^0= 1 for x non-zero and 0^x= 0 for x non-zero. At x= 0 those two cannot be reconciled.


Nothing special about that. The square root of 0 is 0 because 0^2= 0(0)= 0.

Hey, you're pretty good with this stuff. Are you an Ivy-leaguer by chance?

re: sq. rt. of 0. That makes sense!

re: x^0. I'm going to have to reread that slowly sometime, because it's a little over my head right now. Thanks so much though! Very helpful. I love explanations too. That's actually what I feel is lacking so much in my class sometimes. So thanks!
 
bballwaterboy said:
Hey, you're pretty good with this stuff. Are you an Ivy-leaguer by chance?

This stuff used to be taught in arithmetic class, and you didn't need a fancy college education to understand it.
 
In a sense, division by zero is possible in some situations, like when doing a quotient of a vector space by a zero subspace.
 
WWGD said:
In a sense, division by zero is possible in some situations, like when doing a quotient of a vector space by a zero subspace.
The OP was talking about division with real numbers. Quotient spaces really have nothing to do with division in the sense intended here.
 
Last edited:
bballwaterboy said:
Ooops! Yes! That was supposed to be x divided by 0. Must have been a typo slip. Thanks!

But wait. Quick question. You say it could be solved? How's that? How do you divide by zero?
I did NOT say it could be solved. I said that you had not posted a problem to be solved!
 
SteamKing said:
This stuff used to be taught in arithmetic class, and you didn't need a fancy college education to understand it.

I think maybe OP was referring to the fact that "HallsofIvy" might be referring to the halls of an ivy league university?
 
  • #10
Mark44 said:
The OP was talking about division with real numbers. Quotient spaces really have nothing to do with division in the sense intended here.

I know; please note the qualifying statements " In a sense" , and where I make specific references to quotient spaces. I am just trying to provide a broader view the Op may not be aware of. I would be glad if others did the same for me in areas I am not familiar with.
 
  • #11
Matterwave said:
I think maybe OP was referring to the fact that "HallsofIvy" might be referring to the halls of an ivy league university?
Actually, no. There used to be a radio program, about a college professor called "halls of ivy" and my father put a sign outside our house saying "halls of ivy"- it was a play on his name.

No, I did NOT go to a "fancy" ivy league college, I went to M.I.T. where, as SteamKing points out, I was taught arithmetic.
 

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