Argument for God: Does Nothingness Make Sense?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the philosophical question of whether the universe could have originated from nothing and the implications of this idea for the existence of God. Participants explore concepts related to existence, nothingness, and the nature of the universe, touching on both scientific and metaphysical perspectives.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question the assumption that the natural state of affairs should be nothing rather than something, suggesting that nothingness is as mysterious as the universe itself.
  • Others propose that the universe could come from "nothing" in a scientific sense, referring to a state with no matter-energy or space-time, potentially arising spontaneously from laws of nature.
  • One participant argues against the possibility of nothingness, asserting that something must be infinite and that it cannot be created from nothing, leading to a discussion about the nature of consciousness and its relation to the universe.
  • There is a suggestion that the characteristics of an infinite universe may not align with the concept of a God, as all aspects of the universe might be seen as interconnected rather than separate creations.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the nature of existence and the implications for the existence of God, with no consensus reached on these philosophical questions.

Contextual Notes

The discussion includes various assumptions about the nature of nothingness, existence, and consciousness, which are not fully explored or defined, leaving room for interpretation and debate.

Holocene
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Not trying to get into any religious debate here, but often an argument from believers is that, without a god, the universe would've had to "come from nothing".

The question is, do we have any reason at all to believe that the "natural" state of affairs should be nothing instead of something?

Seems to me that complete nothingness would be just as mysterious as a universe filled with matter.
 
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"Argumenting" for or against "beliefs" seems self-contradictory. But let me point that
Holocene said:
the universe would've had to "come from nothing".
Many scientists have no problem with a slight variation on that theme : the Universe can come from "nothing" (in terms of "no matter-energy and no space-time") and creating it "spontaneously" from just laws. Of course, one can then argue that such "laws" are the "thoughts of God". This point is irrelevant to the people playing seriously this game, the vast majority of them viewing that their own personal beliefs has nothing to do with science.
 
We exist in something, so there couldn't possibly be "nothing". And if there is something (which there is) it must be infinite (no beginning or end)... because you can't make something out of nothing. And something can’t destroy itself. It could, however, act upon itself in a positive and negative mode, but its inherent equilibrium would insist the laws cancel each other out continually (does this sound familiar? :)

As for there being a God, I don’t think one is conducive to an infinite universe, because, by its very definition, every characteristic of such a universe must simply be a different aspect of one and the same thing.

So, the real question for me is “Does the universe itself have a collective consciousness (some belief systems refer to this a God Consciousness), or is consciousness just an illusion of the individual mind?”
 
Closed for further consideration of the allowability of the topic by the mentors.
 

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