Atomic Oscillations: Frequency, Nuclear & Wave Function

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    Atomic Oscillations
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of frequency in relation to atomic and nuclear oscillations, particularly focusing on what aspects of an atom or molecule are oscillating and how this relates to wave functions and spin. The scope includes theoretical considerations and conceptual clarifications regarding atomic behavior and models.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question what exactly is oscillating in an atom or molecule, suggesting that understanding the wave function is key to this inquiry.
  • There is mention of the oscillation of electrons and protons, but the specifics remain unclear.
  • One participant asserts that spin cannot exist without frequency, drawing an analogy to Earth's rotation and orbit.
  • Another participant notes that while classical models depict electrons rotating around the nucleus, this leads to issues like radioactive decay, indicating limitations of such models.
  • Discussion includes the idea of atoms oscillating when influenced by electromagnetic waves, as well as the existence of vibrational and rotational modes of excitation that have associated frequencies.
  • There is a suggestion that repeated excitation of an atom can lead to regular photon emissions, hinting at a frequency of emissions.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express uncertainty about the specifics of what oscillates within an atom, and multiple competing views regarding atomic behavior and models are present. The discussion remains unresolved with no consensus on the nature of oscillations in atoms.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include a lack of precise definitions for terms like "oscillation" and "spin," as well as unresolved questions about the underlying mechanisms of atomic behavior.

Donn P
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What is being discussed when frequency is used to describe atoms? Or maybe I should be thinking nuclear oscillations...In other words, the wave function of what?
 
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electrons? protons?...
 
what exactly is oscillating in an atom or molecule?
 
Donn P said:
What is being discussed when frequency is used to describe atoms? Or maybe I should be thinking nuclear oscillations...In other words, the wave function of what?

electrons? protons?...

what exactly is oscillating in an atom or molecule?
You cannot have "spin" without "frequency".
Just as Earth cannot have "rotation" or "orbit" without the cycle period of “day” and “year”.

As to “what exactly is oscillating in an atom”

I’m sure IF you can find or provide an exact and complete description of what an atom is; any on this forum would gladly point out “what exactly is oscillating”.

Actually I’m also sure that only doing so for the attribute of “Spin” would be enough to find the answer you seek.

I’m just as sure you will not be able to find or provide such a description.
Science “knows” spin is there, but no one really “knows” what it is to give an “exact” answer.
 
classically, the electron is said to be rotating around the nucleus, but this yields radioactive decay and electrons spiraling into nuclii almost instantly. but the model is still used in some contexts for the easiest explanation of some phenomena.

once you start talking about optics and the ability of atoms to oscilate when driven by EM waves, then there is some sense in oscilating atoms.

there is also vibration and rotation modes of excitation, both of which have a type of frequency, and thus oscilation.

you can also imagine an atom repeatedly excited, and electrons producing photons with some regularity... so many emmisions per second or something
 
thanks for the insight
 

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