Attempting to find an equation, not sure how to present it.

  • Context: Undergrad 
  • Thread starter Thread starter ultimablah
  • Start date Start date
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around calculating the probability of a random event occurring at least once over a series of attempts, specifically focusing on the formulation of an equation to express this probability. The context includes both theoretical probability and practical examples, such as drawing marbles from a set.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Homework-related

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents a problem involving a random event P with a probability of 1/D and seeks to find the probability L of event P occurring at least once over T attempts, noting that the calculation becomes complex beyond a single attempt.
  • The same participant provides tabulated probabilities for different values of D and T, indicating a pattern but expressing a desire for a more direct equation that does not rely on previous results.
  • Another participant suggests a formula for the probability of event P occurring at least once, which is 1 - (1 - 1/D)^T, providing a clearer mathematical representation of the problem.
  • A different participant introduces a new scenario involving drawing marbles, indicating that the previous equation may not apply due to changing probabilities with each draw.
  • Further replies encourage working through examples and suggest using factorials in the calculations for the marble problem, emphasizing the need to calculate probabilities step by step.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express different approaches to solving the probability problems, with some agreeing on the general method for the first problem while others introduce new complexities with the marble example. No consensus is reached on a single equation applicable to all scenarios presented.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights limitations in applying a single probability formula across different contexts, particularly when the conditions of the problems change, such as in the marble drawing scenario.

ultimablah
Hey, all! I haven't been here for a long time, but I've got a problem I'm working on, and I'm not quite sure how to present my equation.

My problem is, for any given random event P with 1/D chance of occurring, what is the probability L, given T attempts, of event P occurring at least once?

The probability of P occurring when T is one is obvious, just 1/D, but past that, it seems to get rather complicated.

For D = 2, 3, and 4, the chances are charted below:

Code:
D=2
T | L
1 | 1/2
2 | 3/4
3 | 7/8
4 | 15/16
5 | 31/32

D = 3
T | L
1 | 1/3
2 | 5/9
3 | 19/27
4 | 65/81
5 | 211/243

D = 4
T | L
1 | 1/4
2 | 7/16
3 | 37/64
4 | 175/256
5 | 781/1024

Now, I've figured an equation which works for solving for any L in terms of T, but the problem is that it requires the numerator of the previous L, and I don't want to have to get to T = 5 by solving 4, 3, 2, and 1 each time. I'd like an equation that solves for L given only T and D. What's it called if my equation requires a previous result to determine the next result?

I think I put the equation down correctly, please tell me it makes sense.[tex]L(T) = \frac{N_T}{D_T} = \frac{(D-1)*(N_{T-1})+D^{T-1}}{D^{T}}[/tex]
Did I explain everything all right?
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Physics news on Phys.org
ultimablah said:
My problem is, for any given random event P with 1/D chance of occurring, what is the probability L, given T attempts, of event P occurring at least once?

Probability P occurs (1 try): 1/D
Probability P does not occur (1 try): 1 - 1/D
Probability P does not occur (T tries): (1 - 1/D)^T
Probability P occurs at least once (T tries): 1 - (1 - 1/D)^T
 
Thank you, but now I have another problem.

Let's say we had five marbles, 2 green and 3 red.

What are the chances, if you draw two marbles without replacing any, of getting at least one green?

That equation wouldn't work here, because N/D changes/
 
Try working out some small examples. The formula should make itself obvious.

You'll probably use the factorial in the formula.
 
Use the same logic as CRGreathouse showed you for the first problem: the probability of getting "at least one green" is 1- the probability of getting no green- i.e. the probability of getting two red.

Initially there are 2 green and 3 red: 5 altogether so the probability of getting RED is __

Assuming red is drawn (which you must in order to get "2 red") there are 2 green and 2 red left: 4 altogether, so the probability of getting RED is ____.

The probability of getting both red is the product of those two.

The probability of getting "at least one green" is 1 minus that.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
3K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
2K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
3K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K
  • · Replies 0 ·
Replies
0
Views
1K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
1K
  • · Replies 12 ·
Replies
12
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
1K