Autonomous System Summation: What is the sum of X1 + X2 + ... to infinity?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the problem of finding the sum of a sequence defined by recursive relationships involving constants and previous terms. Participants explore the convergence of the series and various mathematical approaches to derive the sum, including infinite series and matrix equations.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents a recursive definition for Xn and Yn, seeking help to find the sum X1 + X2 + ... to infinity.
  • Another participant suggests rewriting the equations to identify a geometric series, noting that convergence requires |c| < 1.
  • A participant corrects their earlier post, indicating that Xn depends on both Xn-1 and Yn-1, complicating the problem beyond a simple infinite series.
  • Another participant proposes a method involving infinite series and sums, but expresses uncertainty about how to express Xn-2 in terms of Xn.
  • One participant frames the problem as a linear algebra issue, introducing matrix notation and discussing the summation of matrix powers.
  • A later reply claims to have solved the problem independently, deriving a formula for the sum of X in terms of Y and other constants, asserting its correctness after testing.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the complexity of the problem, with some favoring geometric series approaches while others advocate for linear algebra methods. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the most effective method to derive the sum.

Contextual Notes

Participants note various assumptions about the constants involved and the conditions under which convergence occurs, but these assumptions are not fully explored or agreed upon.

arentmuskets
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This problem came up in a project I'm doing for work, and I don't have a very extensive math background so I don't know how to solve it. I would appreciate any help you guys could give me.

X1 is a constant
Y1 is a constant

Xn = aXn-1 + bYn-1
Yn = cXn-1 + dYn-1

For all n, for some constants a,b,c,d (for my purposes, all between -1 and 0).

What is the sum X1 + X2 + ... to infinity?

I've tried summing it like an infinite series:
(1/(1-a))(x+b((1/(1-d)y + cx))

That gives me a (poor) approximation, but not the exact answer :-(.

Thank you so much for your help in advance!
 
Last edited:
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You can rewrite the equation as follows...

Xn = (a + b)Xn-1
Xn = cXn-1

...where c = a + b. Note that every term is equal to the previous term multiplied by a constant, making this a geometric series, which only converges if |c| < 1. Any calculus textbook will discuss dealing with geometric series; the sum is given by...

[tex]Sum = \frac{X_{1}}{1 - c}[/tex]
 
I think i might have written it wrong. Xn is a function of both Xn-1 AND Yn-1. I've corrected the mistake in my post.

I think it makes it a lot more complicated than a simple infinite series.
 
Last edited:
Hey guys! I could still use some help.

The logic I've been working on goes like this:

1/(1-a) (x) = x + ax +a2x + ...

1/(1-a) (x + by) = x + by + a2x + aby ...

Which covers some, but not all of the terms created when you solve the problem by hand.

I'm thinking it might be something like:

[itex]\sum[/itex]X = 1/(1-a) ( x + bYn-1 )
[itex]\sum[/itex]Yn-1 = 1/(1-d) (y + cXn-2)

But I don't know how to express Xn-2 in terms of Xn.

Please help! (or point me in the right direction)
 
To me, its simpler to look at it as a linear algebra problem. The recurrences amount to the matrix equation:

[tex]\begin{pmatrix} X_n \\ Y_n \end{pmatrix} = \begin{pmatrix} a & b \\ c & d \end{pmatrix} ^ n \begin{pmatrix} x_0 \\ y_0 \end{pmatrix}[/tex]

For [itex]S_n = \sum_{i=1}^n X_i[/itex] and [itex]T_n = \sum_{i=1}^n Y_i[/itex]

[tex]\begin{pmatrix} S_n \\ T_n \end{pmatrix} = \sum_{i=1}^n \begin{pmatrix} a & b \\ c & d \end{pmatrix}^i \begin{pmatrix} x_0 \\ y_0 \end{pmatrix}[/tex]

To sum the matrix power series, we can try to find a matrix [itex]B[/itex] such that

[tex]\begin{pmatrix} a & b \\ c & d \end{pmatrix} = B^{-1} \begin{pmatrix} \lambda_1 & 0 \\ 0 & \lambda_2 \end{pmatrix} B[/tex]

Then

[tex]\begin{pmatrix} S_n \\ T_n \end{pmatrix} = B^{-1} ( \sum_{i=1}^n \begin{pmatrix} \lambda_1 & 0 \\ 0 & \lambda_2 \end{pmatrix}^i ) B \begin{pmatrix} x_0 \\ y_0 \end{pmatrix}[/tex]

[tex]= B^{-1} \begin{pmatrix} \sum_{i=1}^n \lambda_1^i & 0 \\ 0 & \sum_{i=1}^n \lambda_2^i \end{pmatrix} B \begin{pmatrix} x_0 \\ y_0 \end{pmatrix}[/tex]
 
Thanks for the solution, Stephen!

I actually cracked it yesterday by myself. My original logic turned out to be right:

Since all terms in Xn-1 will be multiplied by a in Xn, we know that every term will be multiplied by a each step into infinity. Furthermore, we know that all new terms in X will come from b[itex]\Sigma[/itex]y (and the original X1. Therefore we know:

[itex]\sum X=\frac{1}{1-a}\left ( x_{1}+b\sum Y \right )[/itex]

By the same logic:

[itex]\sum Y=\frac{1}{1-d}\left ( y_{1}+c\sum X \right )[/itex]

Now, if we plug [itex]\Sigma[/itex]y into the formula for [itex]\Sigma[/itex]x, and solve for [itex]\Sigma[/itex]x, and then do some algebra, we get:

[itex]\sum X=\frac{by_{1}+x_{1}-dx_{1}}{\left ( 1-d \right )\left ( 1-a \right )-bc}[/itex]

Which turns out to be right, after I tested it.
 

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