Bases, operators and eigenvectors

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concepts of bases, linear operators, and eigenvectors within vector spaces, particularly focusing on 2D and 3D spaces. Participants explore the relationships between bases and eigenvectors, the conditions under which eigenvectors exist, and the implications of these relationships in various contexts.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants assert that every vector in a 2D vector space can be expressed as a linear combination of two independent vectors that form a basis, and similarly for 3D spaces with three independent vectors.
  • There is a proposal that the set of eigenvectors of a linear operator forms a basis, as eigenvectors are independent vectors.
  • One participant questions whether linear operators in 2D must have exactly two eigenvectors and in 3D exactly three, suggesting that counter-examples exist.
  • Another participant notes that a linear operator may not have any eigenvectors at all.
  • It is mentioned that while independent vectors can form a basis, they do not necessarily have to be orthogonal.
  • Some participants discuss the possibility of constructing linear operators that have specific eigenvectors and eigenvalues, emphasizing the distinction between independent and orthogonal vectors.
  • There is a suggestion that bases formed by non-orthogonal independent vectors may not lead to a linear operator having those vectors as eigenvectors, prompting inquiries about the usefulness of such bases.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of views on the relationships between bases and eigenvectors, with some agreeing on the definitions and properties while others present counter-examples and alternative perspectives. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the necessity of eigenvectors for all linear operators and the implications of non-orthogonal bases.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight that the existence of eigenvectors can depend on the specific linear operator and that not all operators will have distinct eigenvalues or eigenvectors. The discussion also touches on the differences between independent and orthogonal vectors without reaching a consensus on the implications of these differences.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to students and professionals in mathematics and physics, particularly those exploring linear algebra, vector spaces, and the properties of linear operators.

fog37
Messages
1,566
Reaction score
108
Hello,

In the case of 2D vector spaces, every vector member of the vector space can be expressed as a linear combination of two independent vectors which together form a basis. There are infinitely many possible and valid bases, each containing two independent vectors (not necessarily orthogonal or orthonormal), that we can use. Vectors existing in a 3D vector space can use one out of the many and infinitely possible sets of 3 independent base vectors and so on...

When talking about linear operators and their eigenvectors, we learn that the set of eigenvectors (each eigenvector has its own eigenvalue) of an operator forms a base since the eigenvectors are independent vectors.
That means that the base formed by the eigenvectors of a certain linear operator is just one of those many, infinite possible bases, correct? In 2D, linear operators must therefore have only two eigenvectors (forming a 2D base) while in 3D linear operators can only have 3 eigenvectors and so... is that true?

If we considered a generic basis for a 2D vector space, would the vectors in that basis necessarily be the two eigenvectors of some linear operator? Or is that not necessarily true?

Thanks,
Fog37
 
Physics news on Phys.org
fog37 said:
In 2D, linear operators must therefore have only two eigenvectors (forming a 2D base) while in 3D linear operators can only have 3 eigenvectors and so... is that true?
Counter-example: ##\vec v\rightarrow\ 3\vec v##
(you want different eigenvalues)

even then: if ##\vec a## is an eigenvector, then any multiple of ##\vec a## is also an eigenvector
(you want independent eigenvectors)

fog37 said:
would the vectors in that basis necessarily be the two eigenvectors
You can always construct such an operator: assign (different) eigenvalues to these eigenvectors and there you are !
 
Be aware that a linear operator may not have any eigenvectors.
 
Check out
$$
\begin{bmatrix}1&0\\0&1 \end{bmatrix}\; , \;\begin{bmatrix}1&0\\0&-1 \end{bmatrix}\; , \;\begin{bmatrix}1&1\\0&1 \end{bmatrix}\, , \,\begin{bmatrix}0&-1\\1&0 \end{bmatrix}\; , \;\begin{bmatrix}1&1\\0&0 \end{bmatrix}
$$
 
fog37 said:
When talking about linear operators and their eigenvectors, we learn that the set of eigenvectors (each eigenvector has its own eigenvalue) of an operator forms a base since the eigenvectors are independent vectors.

Perhaps what you have in mind is the situation where a linear operator that maps an n-dimensional space into itself has n distinct eigenvalues and n-distinct eigenvectors. This is not the situation that applies to all linear operators, but there are particular examples of this situation that are important in physics. You hear more about these particular operators than other operators, so you can get the impression that all operators are this way.

This about an operator that projects 3D space onto a 1D subspace - for example T((x,y,z)) = (x,0,0).
 
Thanks everyone. All very helpful. Thank you for reminding me that any scaled version of the same eigenvector is also an eigenvector. So a base can be formed by eigenvectors having different eigenvalues which makes them independent (orthogonal).

In summary:
In 2D, for example, we can form infinite new bases from one particular basis of two independent vectors by scaling each vector in the basis by arbitrary amounts. BvU mentioned that, given an arbitrary basis of two orthogonal vectors, we can find/construct a linear operator that has the two orthogonal vectors as its eigenvectors.

Of course, an acceptable basis is also one that has two vectors that are independent but not orthogonal. In this case, I don't think we can arrive to a linear operator having those independent vectors as eigenvectors. Are bases having non-orthogonal independent vectors very useful? If so, do you have an example?
 
fog37 said:
independent (orthogonal).
Note that independent ##\ne## orthogonal at all !
 
yes, two vectors, graphically, are independent as long as they are not along the same line of action. their mutual angle can be any angle other than zero or 180.

Still, independent vectors form a basis...
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 33 ·
2
Replies
33
Views
3K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
4K
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
4K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 14 ·
Replies
14
Views
4K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
4K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
3K
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
4K
  • · Replies 26 ·
Replies
26
Views
4K