Basic Discrete Math Question: Understanding Conditional Statements

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The discussion revolves around understanding the truth of conditional statements in discrete math, specifically the example "If 1+1=3 then 2+2=4." The key point is that in logic, if the premise (p) is false, the entire conditional statement can still be considered true, regardless of the truth of the conclusion (q). Participants highlight that this illustrates a fundamental aspect of implications in logic, where a false premise allows for any conclusion to be valid. The conversation emphasizes the distinction between logical truth and practical usefulness, noting that while the statement is technically true, it lacks real-world applicability. Overall, the discussion clarifies the mechanics of conditional statements and their implications in mathematical logic.
MarcL
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Before I make a fool of myself let me just say I just had my first class today and the book/ teacher aren't helpful in my question. And I'm not even sure I'm in the right section, this is just my major

1. Homework Statement

"If 1+1=3 then 2+2=4"

Homework Equations


We just covered conditional statement and its truth table that states if p is false and q is true, then the statement is still true

The Attempt at a Solution



Basic question, following the table given to us, but it doesn't makes sense to me. If 1+1=3 then 2+2=4 , how can the whole statement be true?
 
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MarcL said:
Before I make a fool of myself let me just say I just had my first class today and the book/ teacher aren't helpful in my question. And I'm not even sure I'm in the right section, this is just my major

1. Homework Statement

"If 1+1=3 then 2+2=4"

Homework Equations


We just covered conditional statement and its truth table that states if p is false and q is true, then the statement is still true
Yes
MarcL said:

The Attempt at a Solution



Basic question, following the table given to us, but it doesn't makes sense to me. If 1+1=3 then 2+2=4 , how can the whole statement be true?
To quote what you wrote above,
if p is false and q is true, then the statement is still true
 
WHat I was trying to say is that, it doesn't make sense to me ( how i see it ) that if I state 1+1 = 3 then 2+2=4 then why would the whole statement be true if only half of it is in realitiy.
 
MarcL said:
WHat I was trying to say is that, it doesn't make sense to me ( how i see it ) that if I state 1+1 = 3 then 2+2=4 then why would the whole statement be true if only half of it is in realitiy.
To re-quote what you wrote above,
if p is false and q is true, then the statement is still true
p: 1 + 1 = 3 (false)
q: 2 + 2 = 4 (true)
##p \Rightarrow q## (true)

From the truth table for an implication, the only pair of values of p and q that make the implication false are when p is true and q is false. All other pairs of values for p and q yield a true implication.
 
Last edited:
I think the important point is being missed.
Let S be the statement "if p then q". If it turns out that p is false then the statement S is true regardless of whether q is true.
Thus "if 1+1=3 then 2+2=9" is also a true statement.
To put it in everyday language, if you start from a false premise then you can deduce anything.
It is possible that the questioner wants you to illustrate this by a chain of argument that starts with "1+1=3" as a given and ends with "2+2=4". Or, better, ends with "2+2=9".
Here's how you could do the last one:
1+1=3
2+2 = 1+1+1+1 = (1+1)(1+1) = (1+1)2 = 32 = 9
 
haruspex said:
It is possible that the questioner wants you to illustrate this by a chain of argument that starts with "1+1=3" as a given and ends with "2+2=4".
I could be wrong, but that's not my take on this problem, which is to recognize that p (1 + 1 = 3) is false, so no matter what q is, the overall implication is true.
 
Mark44 said:
I could be wrong, but that's not my take on this problem, which is to recognize that p (1 + 1 = 3) is false, so no matter what q is, the overall implication is true.
Yes, I said it was just a possibility. Without seeing the original question verbatim it's hard to know.
But the main point I wanted to make is that this
MarcL said:
if p is false and q is true, then the statement is still true
is misleading by being insufficiently general. It should say
if p is false then the statement is true regardless of the truth or falsehood of q​
 
MarcL said:
Basic question, following the table given to us, but it doesn't makes sense to me. If 1+1=3 then 2+2=4 , how can the whole statement be true?

The truth of the statement is based on the truth or falsehood of the logic, not the parts. The logic is ##p \implies q##. If p is not true, then the logic is true by virtue of the fact it cannot be proven false. There is a large gap between true and useful logic. This logic is true but totally useless, since p is never true.
 

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