Best Places to Recieve a Degree (Maths) From?

[NewScientist]

Me and some friends were talking today and thought that perhaps the best places to receive a maths degree from are Princeton and Trinity College Cambridge, I was wondering what your thoughts were - we couldn't think of many other plaes with the same standards and rapor.

-NewScientist

 

[NewScientist]

*bump*

-NewScientist

 

[JasonJo]

Princeton and Cambridge are definitely top 5 in the world

 

[devious_]

Harvard, MIT, Waterloo and U Chicago aren't too shabby either.

 

[neurocomp2003]

waterloo, mm uft and ubc are prolly top3 in Canada(don't know if ucal/ua would place above them).
I figured Caltech/MIT/Maryland/CMU-UPITTS...maybe that's for cs though.

 

[mathwonk]

I don't think it matters too much, if you find a place that has what you are interested in, and has an advisor you can connect with. If you go to harvard but are not as strong as they expect, it is worse for you rather than better. It may help you find a job to have Harvard after your name, but it won't help you get tenure if you can't do anything on your own.

different schools allow different lengths of time, so you need one that allows you as much as you need. I went to Utah and it worked out well for me, but I was a little anxious when they told me in Fall of my third year that it was finish or get out at the end of the year. I had trouble finishing and really was not quite finished. i could have used a 4th year but they would not give it to me.

 

[neurocomp2003]

3 yrs for a BSC,Msc?

 

[marlon]

why do you Americans always think that your universities are top notch ?

Have you ever considered that universities outside the US may be of the same level as these socalled Ivy league schools ?

I mean, if you look at the survey of the PISA-organization (check out my journal for the actual texts), American high school students do not perform very well when it comes to math aptitude. Countries like Belgium and Singapore have scores that belong to the very world-top. Please, this is not an attempt to be nationalistic from my part.

If high school students score that bad on math and physics when compared to the rest of the world and these universities only accept the top students, then by deduction there would not be to many American students in your own Ivy league schools.

Besides, i have a cousin who studied at the same university as i did (university of Ghent in Belgium) and he did a physics phd at Stanford. Well, he said things are very much the same here, that is all. It certainly is not that difficult as some of you always like to proclaim. Many countries have academic standards that exceed those of the US.


Just my opinion

regards
marlon

 

[ktpr2]

mathwonk - what was their rationale for giving you a maximum of three years for your degree (was it a masters or phd?)

 

[so-crates]

I mean, if you look at the survey of the PISA-organization (check out my journal for the actual texts), American high school students do not perform very well when it comes to math aptitude. Countries like Belgium and Singapore have scores that belong to the very world-top. Please, this is not an attempt to be nationalistic from my part.

If high school students score that bad on math and physics when compared to the rest of the world and these universities only accept the top students, then by deduction there would not be to many American students in your own Ivy league schools.

The key there is top students. Yes on average our students might do worse than in Singapore and Belgium but I would bet our top 1% match up just as well as other countries top 1%. And for the top 1%, the standardized test scores aren't going to mean much.

 

[pmb_phy]

why do you Americans always think that your universities are top notch ?

That's a new one on me. I never heard of anything like that before. You guys have Oxford and that's nothing to sneeze at. We have more people and land so it makes our population larger so if there is something to your claim then it'd be for that reason. However I think it has much to do with what I refer to as the snob effect in that the more people here who go to ivy leauge schools think their better than everyone else just because they go to an ivy leauge college.

Pete

 

[neurocomp2003]

Marlon :why do you Americans always think that your universities are top notch ?"
how do you get that from all the posts?

 

[marlon]

However I think it has much to do with what I refer to as the snob effect in that the more people here who go to ivy leauge schools think their better than everyone else just because they go to an ivy leauge college.

Pete

My point exactly

regards
marlon

 

[Bladibla]

Marlon :why do you Americans always think that your universities are top notch ?"
how do you get that from all the posts?

I bet you that he *didn't* get it from posts in here. Its a common speculation that the 'top' notch universities are in the UK and US. People little realize that such comments are inane, and not within context of whatever subjects you do. While it *is* true US/UK universities are among the top, most undergraduate programs, as many experts in this forum have said, will not involve the use of full facilities that these universities possess, meaning whether or not princton or (in marlons instance) ghent, undergraduate programs have little/no difference, other than individual teachers that suck/rock.

 

[neurocomp2003]

true but there are some teachers you just want to work with...that lead to that school being rated over others: CMU-UPITTS, bard ermentrout, carson chow well also the neural nets people like touretzky and the psych/cs people from both schools...

 

[mathwonk]

i was given only 2-3 years for a PhD because I already had a masters.

As to ivy league schools, and american schools in general, cropping up in my own conversation, it is strictly ignorance on my part.

I am not as familiar with top schools elsewhere. Moreover, top schools in the US admit lots of students who prepare elsewhere.

I may of course be wrong, but it is often thoguht here in the US that the high school system lags the world but the university system leads.

That is still only an average statement, and not intended at all to ignore the many absolutely top level individual universities throughout the world.

galileo e.g. is at leiden, an outstanding university in holland, with a tradition that is to my knowledge unmatched in the US. It is a porivilege even to witness a PhD oral there in a room with portarits of former scholars, and witness the high standards still in force. There are many other examples, and the famous british universities are still taken as synonyms for excellence in the US.

Anyone familiar with mathematics knows very well of the tradition of the universities in moscow and the steklov institute.

Moreover the statement about us universities standing out as a whole, may be going out of date as they admit more american trained high school students, ans as high school training in the us continues to decline. At least our own university system in my state has visibly declined in standards, since the 1960's, as it strains to accommodate more poorly trained students, and more americans in the new chauvinistic environment.

now I've offended the americans. but i apologize. i am as always speaking forpm very partial knowledge and much less partial ignorance.

 

[mathwonk]

note too the original poster set as criteria both high standards and high "raport". few people would accuse harvard faculty and administrators of having high rapport with its students.

so he was looking for a place that was simulataneously of good quality academically and one that reached out to the students in an accepting way, i believe.

at the undergraduate level, i have always heard good things about univ of chicago in that way: top standards, and hard work helping students reach them.

to be honest, marlon and pete, you seem to be reacting to a "snob effect" that was not expressed by anyone here.

 

[NewScientist]

Hey everyone thank you for your ideas - we were just wondering about it!

I think we shortlisted, Warrick (UK), Trinity College Cambridge (UK - and #1!), MIT, Princeton and Chicago.

-NewScientist

 

[Bladibla]

Hey everyone thank you for your ideas - we were just wondering about it!

I think we shortlisted, Warrick (UK), Trinity College Cambridge (UK - and #1!), MIT, Princeton and Chicago.

-NewScientist

There are also many european universities you might want to consider.

 

[marlon]

There are also many european universities you might want to consider.

yes, how about one of the oldest universities in the world : the university of Leuven in Belgium. Or the university of Ghent where they have one of the leading labs on molecular and bioligical genetics. If you do not believe me, go check out the latest issue of Nature and look for the university of Ghent, it will speak for itself.

regards
marlon

 

[juvenal]

Yeah - I think people are just listing the schools they're familiar with. Americans will naturally list schools in America. To be honest, I'm not familiar with many foreign schools, except the ones that some of my fellow grad students have attended.

You do have to admit that Harvard (and maybe Oxford) is a name known pretty much throughout the world, deserved or not.

BTW - Caltech's math program isn't all that great, from what I've heard.

 

[NewScientist]

I'd just like to say nowhere beats Trinity College - seriously it is awesome - I studied there for a couple of years and it blew my mind!

 

[Bladibla]

I'd just like to say nowhere beats Trinity College - seriously it is awesome - I studied there for a couple of years and it blew my mind!

:uhh:

Then why ask the question in the first place?

 

[NewScientist]

Well we were thinking which were the best (plural)!

 

[Bladibla]

Well we were thinking which were the best (plural)!

Well, you said you have considered trinity college in cambridge and Princton (if i recall correctly) in your OP.

and you reply..

I'd just like to say nowhere beats Trinity College - seriously it is awesome - I studied there for a couple of years and it blew my mind!

This means you have already decided that TC is the best for you, with/without this discussion.

 

[NewScientist]

Okay let's all chill out here - I was just interested in what other people thought as I am not an academic - and so I was just throwing it out there - I have my opinion like everyone else but i was looking for ideas for other places - so thank you to those that have given me food for thought!

-NewScientist

 

[Peter.E]

From two separate sources apparently the Top Ten Universities 2004 were:

1. Harvard University
2. Stanford University
3. University of Cambridge
4. University of California - Berkley
5. Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT)
6. California Institute of Technology (Caltech)
7. Princeton University
8. Oxford University
9. Columbia University
10. University of Chicago

And from The Times 2004, they were:

1. Harvard University
2. University of California at Berkeley
3. Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT)
4. California Institute of Technology (Caltech)
5. University of Oxford
6. University of Cambridge
7. Stanford University
8. Yale University
9. Princeton University
10. ETH Zurich

The Top Ten Universities vary so much from source to source, generally the Top 50 Universities will give you a damn good Degree.

 

[cronxeh]

I don't get you guys. What is the point of any of those top 10 ratings if the faculty at any, and many, state and city colleges and universities is alumni from those top10 schools? Is it the flaw of logic or just inept inability to understand what 'knowledge' means?`

 

[mathwonk]

well i am a faculty member at a state school, so I am a student of a graduate of one of those schools, and many of my colleagues are graduates of those schools. still there is a difference between the strength of the faculty at those schools and the strength of their graduates.

so I am sort of a top "10 college twice removed" faculty member, and my colleagues are "once removed", and the faculty at those places are the best.

lets take a bilbical example, jesus was the master teacher, and his 12 disciples were his personal students students. then they went out and taught further. being a student of say james or peter is not the same as hearing it from the masters lips directly.

 

[lyeinyoureye]

Since math can be done (more or less) anywhere, I never understood how college choice mattered...
I suggest tearing through as much math as you can, and hopefully, you'll know what you want to focus on by the time you graduate. Then decide where you want to go based on specific fields/professors, not subjective ratings.

 

[NewScientist]

College choice matters a great deal. The teaching and extra-studial word (such as applications of math into physics, computing etc) is different at different institutions.

Saying college choice doesn't matter is like saying that going to the north sea is just the same as the carribean because they both have water!

-NS

 

[Peter.E]

In my opinion a University with family accomodation which is nice and quiet is good enough for me, like York or Durham. As long as the University lies within the top 20 for Physics in the UK I am not particularly bothered, the core content is generally the same.

The location and facilities are most important to me.

 

[brewnog]

In my opinion a University with family accomodation which is nice and quiet is good enough for me, like York or Durham. As long as the University lies within the top 20 for Physics in the UK I am not particularly bothered, the core content is generally the same.

The location and facilities are most important to me.

This seems pretty sensible. In terms of getting a degree, I would have been happy with any of the top 20 UK universities, - getting a Cambridge degree would have had no advantage over the one I've got, for example. So I chose based on the city environment, student life, location, and cost of living.

 

[NewScientist]

Hey, I sent a link of this to a friend and he responded thus:

Getting a degree from Oxbrdige has several advantages in my view:
1) Any networking you achieve is with some of the best and richest in their fields (netwroking is getting a group of contacts - people you know etc).
2) The Kudos of oxbridge is massive and a degree from there gives your CV a huge boost - if you have a degree from Salford, and somebody else has the same degree from Cambridge, the guy from cambridge will be chosen
3) The lecturers and professors at Oxbridge tend to be near the top of the best professors around nad are great educators
4) The level of degree achieved there is greater than at most other universities. This is why you used to be able to pay £50 to get a BA turned into an Ma.

-NS

 

[brewnog]

Getting a degree from Oxbrdige has several advantages in my view:


1) Any networking you achieve is with some of the best and richest in their fields (netwroking is getting a group of contacts - people you know etc).

Many people can get on perfectly well without an old-boys network, thank you very much!

2) The Kudos of oxbridge is massive and a degree from there gives your CV a huge boost - if you have a degree from Salford, and somebody else has the same degree from Cambridge, the guy from cambridge will be chosen

Depending on what field you're studying (and yes, I know your thread was just about maths), this just doesn't hold water any more. Using Salford is a poor example, because in academic terms it does not compete with Oxbridge. Statistics show that an engineering degree from my university is worth more, in the eyes of employers, than an equivalent Oxbridge degree. (For arts-based subjects, however, the reputation of the Oxbridge universities is still as powerful as ever.)

Your example is poor: A University of Nottingham graduate is more likely to be selected over a Nottingham Trent graduate, for a technical job. So what?

3) The lecturers and professors at Oxbridge tend to be near the top of the best professors around nad are great educators

Yes, of course they are. But other world-class universities also have lecturers and professors at the top. Several of my lecturers served as lecturers at Oxbridge. So what?

4) The level of degree achieved there is greater than at most other universities.

What do you mean?