Black Holes: Gravity & Formation Explained

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the gravity of black holes in comparison to their progenitor stars, particularly focusing on the implications of mass loss during the formation of black holes and how this affects gravitational strength. Participants explore concepts from both Newtonian gravity and General Relativity, as well as the nature of gravitational collapse.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question whether black holes have less gravity than their original stars, citing the mass loss during the formation process as a factor.
  • Others argue that while the mass inside a black hole may be less than that of the original star, the gravitational intensity at the event horizon can be much greater than at the surface of the star.
  • A participant highlights that black holes are a consequence of General Relativity, which cannot be accurately described by Newtonian gravity.
  • It is noted that the mass per volume within a black hole's event horizon decreases as the black hole grows larger, presenting a counterintuitive aspect of black hole physics.
  • Another participant discusses the density required for gravitational collapse, suggesting that average densities in star-forming regions are sufficient for star formation, contrasting with laboratory vacuums.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the relationship between mass, gravity, and the formation of black holes. There is no consensus on whether black holes inherently have less gravity than their progenitor stars, as the discussion includes multiple perspectives and interpretations of gravitational behavior.

Contextual Notes

The discussion includes references to both Newtonian and relativistic frameworks, which may lead to misunderstandings without clear definitions. The implications of mass distribution and gravitational effects near the event horizon remain complex and unresolved.

AF HUNZAI
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Do black holes have gravity less than their mother star?.if no then why not,though during formation of black holes
outer layer of star explodes out in space and inner core crush by its own gravity this way its mass decrease..So If i consider Gravity a force,by Newton law of gravitation Decrease in mass should leads to decrease in gravity..
 
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The volumn of a black hole's event horizon is much less than the star that it originates from. Check out the section on Gravitational Collapse to understand how it occurs.
 
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The reference to Newton's law of gravity in the same post as black holes is flawed thinking. Black holes are a phenomena that is a natural consequence of General Relativity (which, to oversimplify, is just a fancy name for the modern laws of gravity), which is impossible in Newtonian gravity.

Also, while Black Hole are more gravitationally intense at the event horizon than a star is at any point at its surface or within it, once a Black Hole is formed its event horizon can expand as it acquires more mass that gets sucked into it. While the initial mass per volume within the event horizon of a Black Hole when it forms is just slightly greater than the mass per volume of a neutron star or atomic nucleus, this does not continue to hold true as the Black Hole acquires mass and its event horizon expands.

The huge black holes at the center of galaxies, for example, have far less mass per volume within their event horizon, than a star does. The larger the Black Hole, the less mass per volume within its event horizon it has, a very counterintuitive reality. If the mass of a large black hole were spread evenly over the space within its event horizon, there would not be enough gravitational pressure to form a black hole.
 
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Density is not much of a limiting factor on gravitational collapse. The average density of molecular gas clouds in star forming regions is on the order of a 10^6 molecules per cc^3 - shich is sufficient density for gravitational collapse into a star. By comparison a laboratory grade vacuum has a density of about 10^10 molecules per cc^3.
 
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AF HUNZAI said:
Do black holes have gravity less than their mother star?.if no then why not,though during formation of black holes
outer layer of star explodes out in space and inner core crush by its own gravity this way its mass decrease..So If i consider Gravity a force,by Newton law of gravitation Decrease in mass should leads to decrease in gravity..
Essentially, yes, the resulting black hole has less gravity at the same distance. The gravitational attraction around a spherically-symmetric body is purely determined by the amount of mass inside a given radius. Because a large portion of the matter that makes up the star is ejected when it collapses into a black hole, the mass that ends up within the black hole is only a fraction of the total star's mass, so the overall gravitational pull is less.

But a black hole is also vastly smaller, so that if you're near the event horizon, the gravitational pull will be far greater than it would have been at the surface of the star.
 
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Thanks for clearing my confusion.
 

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