Black Holes & Light: Theory or Fact?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the relationship between light and gravity in the context of black holes, exploring whether light can be stationary in a gravitational field and why black holes are not directly observable. Participants engage with concepts from theoretical physics, including the speed of light, escape velocity, and gravitational lensing.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that the speed of light and gravity operate at the same speed, suggesting that light could be stationary in a gravitational field.
  • Others argue that light cannot be stationary, questioning the validity of the initial claim about light countering gravity.
  • A participant describes a scenario involving an observer near a black hole, explaining that if an object does not reach escape velocity, it will fall back, and as one approaches the event horizon, escape velocity exceeds the speed of light.
  • There is mention of light bending due to gravity, with some participants clarifying that light can be deflected by a black hole without being drawn in, depending on its trajectory.
  • One participant references Kip Thorne's work as a way to further explore the concepts discussed.
  • Another participant notes that light emitted from matter falling into a black hole can be observed, even if the black hole itself cannot be seen directly.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on whether light can be stationary in a gravitational field, and there is no consensus on the implications of light's behavior near black holes. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the initial claims about the speed of light and gravity.

Contextual Notes

Some statements rely on assumptions about the nature of gravity and light, and the discussion does not resolve the complexities of escape velocity or the conditions under which light can be observed near black holes.

LEIN_AD
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I was watching an interesting article on string theroy on TV the other night and they said (not sure if it was theroy or fact) that, the speed of light and gravity work at the same speed. eg gravity pulls light towards the source but the light is traveling fast enough to counter gravity, thus leading to the light being stationary.

This got me thinking if this statement is true how come we can't see black holes? Surly we would be able to see some light if both work at the same speeds.

Clarification on whether the statement is true or not would be of help aswell.
Thx heaps.
 
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Consider an observer who hovers a small distance d above the event horizon of a black hole. The observer throws a ball straight up. If the initial speed of the ball (with respect to the observer) is less than the escape velocity due to gravity, then the ball comes back down. As the hovering distance d approaches zero, the escape velocity approaches the speed of light.
 
LEIN_AD said:
I was watching an interesting article on string theroy on TV the other night and they said (not sure if it was theroy or fact) that, the speed of light and gravity work at the same speed. eg gravity pulls light towards the source but the light is traveling fast enough to counter gravity, thus leading to the light being stationary.

This got me thinking if this statement is true how come we can't see black holes? Surly we would be able to see some light if both work at the same speeds.

Clarification on whether the statement is true or not would be of help aswell.
Thx heaps.
If you can lay your hand on Kip Thorne's "Black Holes and Time Warps: Einstein's Outrageous Legacy", read his version of the "Parable of the ants". It is a fun way to answer the question you asked.
 
Wait I thought light does bend when it encounters gravity. Doesnt a black hole act as a lens bending the behind it.
 
LEIN_AD said:
eg gravity pulls light towards the source but the light is traveling fast enough to counter gravity, thus leading to the light being stationary.
Doesn't sound right. Light can't be stationary. Can you clarify?

This got me thinking if this statement is true how come we can't see black holes? Surly we would be able to see some light if both work at the same speeds.
The speed of gravity really isn't the issue. The black hole will have a gravitational field around it that light will fall into and either escape or be trapped by. Like George was saying, the closer you are to the black hole (or any mass really) the higher the "escape velocity" is for something to get away from that black hole. Once inside the event horizon of the black hole, the escape velocity is greater than the speed of light, so not even light (the fastest thing there is) can escape. If no light escapes it, you can't see it directly. Now, light eminating from stuff falling into the black hole prior to the event horizon can be seen.
 
EP said:
Wait I thought light does bend when it encounters gravity. Doesnt a black hole act as a lens bending the behind it.
Yes, but that's light that doesn't encounter the event horizon of the black hole. A light beam moving tangential to a black hole doesn't necessarily get drawn in, but does have its path deflected. A light beam going directly at a black hole is a goner.
 

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